Twitmarsh!
Germany - Jenson .13 behind Massa
Hungary - Lewis .16 behind Massa
Hungary is a worse track for Mclaren than Germany.
Full Version: Jenson and Lewis Scorecard 2010 [merged]
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QUOTE (mkay @ Jul 31 2010, 14:43) 
Really? Renault looked a LOT faster than McLaren before Q3. Heck, even Petrov was faster than both McLarens!
Renaults were 0.5 secs slower in Q3 than Q2, ran out of tyres.
What is going on with Button? He said he couldn't find grip, but I didn't hear that complaint from others. Perhaps his set up was off...?
QUOTE (kensaundm31 @ Jul 31 2010, 08:45)
Twitmarsh!
Germany - Jenson .13 behind Massa
Hungary - Lewis .16 behind Massa
Hungary is a worse track for Mclaren than Germany.
Germany - Jenson .13 behind Massa
Hungary - Lewis .16 behind Massa
Hungary is a worse track for Mclaren than Germany.
We knew that would be the case all along. It's similar to Monaco, where Lewis also qualified 5th.
It's a shame Alonso left Mclaren. He would be pushing Hamilton harder than Button is doing ATM.
QUOTE (mkay @ Jul 31 2010, 15:43)
Really? Renault looked a LOT faster than McLaren before Q3. Heck, even Petrov was faster than both McLarens!
Yes, but that's what usually happens. Certain teams run out of tyres. They do only 1 run instead of 2 etc.
Session 2 is the toughest session for McLaren.
QUOTE (robefc @ Jul 31 2010, 14:44)
PIT: "OK Lewis, hopefully a bit more time to come then."
HAM:"That was a good lap but I lost a bit of time in turn four."
1355: Lewis had a moment at turn four but has continued.
1353: Lewis's first lap is a 1'20.499 which puts him third, eight thousandths of a second slower than Massa.
HAM:"That was a good lap but I lost a bit of time in turn four."
1355: Lewis had a moment at turn four but has continued.
1353: Lewis's first lap is a 1'20.499 which puts him third, eight thousandths of a second slower than Massa.
Do you know where JB had his "moment".... maybe that car is not easy to drive close to the limit... particularly with the EBD.
QUOTE (mkay @ Jul 31 2010, 14:43)
Really? Renault looked a LOT faster than McLaren before Q3. Heck, even Petrov was faster than both McLarens!
why are you bitching at lewis for getting the most out of the car... look at where button, petrov and kubica are...
Kubica and petrov got 1.20:8 pretty much
lewis goes 3 tenths quicker and your complaining he isn't faster than them. both done them times on Softs, so its irrelevant. clearly that was the fastest the renault could go.
once again Mkay you sure your lack of encouragement to your team and drivers.
go bash on the guy that went out in Q2 not the guy who got 5th. jesus...
QUOTE (AlanWake @ Jul 31 2010, 14:49)
It's a shame Alonso left Mclaren. He would be pushing Hamilton harder than Button is doing ATM.
Depends if you think a driver gets quicker over his first 4 seasons...
Plus Fernando didn't exactly 'leave'...
perhaps before people are so quick to write of the car as cr*p they should look at both the WDC and WCC points lists.
Just because the last two tracks have not suited the car certainly does not make it cr*p.
try to remember back longer than just 1 weekend ago.
Just because the last two tracks have not suited the car certainly does not make it cr*p.
try to remember back longer than just 1 weekend ago.
QUOTE (jjcale @ Jul 31 2010, 14:51)
Do you know where JB had his "moment".... maybe that car is not easy to drive close to the limit... particularly with the EBD.
On the way into T2, passing a backmarker, he braked a touch late.
Another great job from Hamilton. I remember reading Button himself say "if we get in to the top 5 in qualifying we can be very happy," and I think Lewis said something similar, so a good result. Clean side should be an advantage - with a good start, he could find himself in a very good position. He'll probably then have to spend the whole race defending it, but still...!
Button can still salvage something good. It's going to be harder here because of lack of overtaking opportunities, but it might be achievable, depending on how things pan out.
Button can still salvage something good. It's going to be harder here because of lack of overtaking opportunities, but it might be achievable, depending on how things pan out.
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jul 31 2010, 15:55)
On the way into T2, passing a backmarker, he braked a touch late.
He's cursing on backmarkers the whole weekend.
Although this backmarker went out of the way fine.
It can however distract. You always drive the best with a clear track.
QUOTE (jjcale @ Jul 31 2010, 13:22)
He also alienated Newey ...with his desire not to be overshadowed.
He has a problems with a star designer .... just like he has a problem with a superstar driver.
IMHO
He has a problems with a star designer .... just like he has a problem with a superstar driver.
IMHO
profile neurosis
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jul 31 2010, 13:55)
On the way into T2, passing a backmarker, he braked a touch late.
He was already on the options, he should have been much quicker
QUOTE (robefc @ Jul 31 2010, 15:44)
PIT: "OK Lewis, hopefully a bit more time to come then."
HAM:"That was a good lap but I lost a bit of time in turn four."
1355: Lewis had a moment at turn four but has continued.
1353: Lewis's first lap is a 1'20.499 which puts him third, eight thousandths of a second slower than Massa.
HAM:"That was a good lap but I lost a bit of time in turn four."
1355: Lewis had a moment at turn four but has continued.
1353: Lewis's first lap is a 1'20.499 which puts him third, eight thousandths of a second slower than Massa.
Why does Lewis say this to the team, while to the BBC he says he got every last inch out of the car? He's lying.
Then Whitmarsh gets asked the question whether Lewis outperformed the car, he answered no because he knew Lewis made this mistake, and he get's slaughtered here by Hamilton fans. Typical.
Come on, who's surprised Button flopped? 
A tenth or two would still leave Mclaren scratching their balls to find 1.5 seconds.
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 15:01)
Why does Lewis say this to the team, while to the BBC he says he got every last inch out of the car? He's lying.
Then Whitmarsh gets asked the question whether Lewis outperformed the car, he answered no because he knew Lewis made this mistake, and he get's slaughtered here by Hamilton fans. Typical.
Then Whitmarsh gets asked the question whether Lewis outperformed the car, he answered no because he knew Lewis made this mistake, and he get's slaughtered here by Hamilton fans. Typical.
A tenth or two would still leave Mclaren scratching their balls to find 1.5 seconds.
QUOTE (kosmos @ Jul 31 2010, 18:51)
Hamilton is doing magic with this car, he is doing a superb job when the car is behind the leaders. Really, really impressive
+1
QUOTE (The Ragged Edge @ Jul 31 2010, 16:02)
A tenth or two would still leave Mclaren scratching their balls to find 1.5 seconds.
That's irrelevant to the comments.
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 07:01)
Why does Lewis say this to the team, while to the BBC he says he got every last inch out of the car? He's lying.
Perhaps he thought there was more pace in turn 4 but after his second run found out there wasn't any more grip there. Just a possibility.
Or he could be LYING!!!!!
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 14:01)
Why does Lewis say this to the team, while to the BBC he says he got every last inch out of the car? He's lying.
Then Whitmarsh gets asked the question whether Lewis outperformed the car, he answered no because he knew Lewis made this mistake, and he get's slaughtered here by Hamilton fans. Typical.
Then Whitmarsh gets asked the question whether Lewis outperformed the car, he answered no because he knew Lewis made this mistake, and he get's slaughtered here by Hamilton fans. Typical.
"Congratulations Lewis you are P5."
"You got everything out of the car. P5 is a great place to start from tomorrow."
Than Andy (or Phil ) is lying, too?
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 15:01)
Why does Lewis say this to the team, while to the BBC he says he got every last inch out of the car? He's lying.
Then Whitmarsh gets asked the question whether Lewis outperformed the car, he answered no because he knew Lewis made this mistake, and he get's slaughtered here by Hamilton fans. Typical.
Then Whitmarsh gets asked the question whether Lewis outperformed the car, he answered no because he knew Lewis made this mistake, and he get's slaughtered here by Hamilton fans. Typical.
I don't think he's lying as such, he makes his comments on the radio after a specific lap.
Comments to the bbc are after the whole quali session so he probably feels over the course of the session he was trying his guts out and got the most out of it. Doubt he can even remember his first Q3 lap or whether he lost a tenth at T4!
No driver ever gets everything out the car. Noone gets absolutely 100%. Its just what they say, and to be honest, he did get a lot out of it.
QUOTE (AlanWake @ Jul 31 2010, 14:49)
It's a shame Alonso left Mclaren. He would be pushing Hamilton harder than Button is doing ATM.
Seems to me that they don't have to be on the same team to push one another. They appear to do just fine at that o- even thought they are on totally different teams. But Alonso makes a lot more money where he is at, so I doubt he regrets the decision that saw him outta McLaren. Meanwhile, I think overall Button is doing a great job this year, and I think earlier on in the season when Lewis was trailing behind by quite a lot, Button did push him with his own performance which you may remember was hitting on all fours at the time. Today didn't go well for Button at all though. I don't know why he had a problem finding grip...
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 14:34)
I think Whitmarsh was just saying it as it is actually.
Hey look at that, our opinions clash.
Hamilton was impressive, but I kinda knew the end result before qualifying started, so I wasn't surprised by him.
Hey look at that, our opinions clash.
Hamilton was impressive, but I kinda knew the end result before qualifying started, so I wasn't surprised by him.
Now I'm impressed. Tell me, who do you think will win the title going by what you see at the moment - and who will come out on top - JB or LH?
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 15:07)
That's irrelevant to the comments.
In the grand scheme of things? What Whitmarsh said about Hamilton losing some time, I honestly dont care, neither was I upset with him for pointing out a fact. The point I made was even a tenth or two quicker Hamilton could have gone, it still left him 1.5 down.
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jul 31 2010, 13:53)
Depends if you think a driver gets quicker over his first 4 seasons...
Plus Fernando didn't exactly 'leave'...
Plus Fernando didn't exactly 'leave'...
Alonso is a much better driver than he was in 2007, just like Hamilton.
Personally I would pay to see them in the same team again
QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Jul 31 2010, 14:44)
Don't worry Macca will pull out a strategy for Buttom where he could get right behind Lewis, or even jump him.
That's what I predict too. What they should do is get an optimal strategy for Hamilton to maximise his fantastic effort at qualifying. But Whitmarsh will do it his own stupid way as usual.
QUOTE (Grenada @ Jul 31 2010, 15:17)
That's what I predict too. What they should do is get an optimal strategy for Hamilton to maximise his fantastic effort at qualifying. But Whitmarsh will do it his own stupid way as usual.
Always possible they will try and optimise the strategies for both cars...
QUOTE (robefc @ Jul 31 2010, 15:12)
I don't think he's lying as such, he makes his comments on the radio after a specific lap.
Comments to the bbc are after the whole quali session so he probably feels over the course of the session he was trying his guts out and got the most out of it. Doubt he can even remember his first Q3 lap or whether he lost a tenth at T4!
Comments to the bbc are after the whole quali session so he probably feels over the course of the session he was trying his guts out and got the most out of it. Doubt he can even remember his first Q3 lap or whether he lost a tenth at T4!
Yeah, Lewis as we all know is Mr Positive, that's all it is.
Plus he knows if he said anything like "it would have been better but I made a mistake in S2" then it gets played as making an excuse. Or putting Jenson down.
As it is, he feels he got the best position he could, and so that's what we get. Positive. He colours his world that way.
QUOTE (Grenada @ Jul 31 2010, 15:17)
That's what I predict too. What they should do is get an optimal strategy for Hamilton to maximise his fantastic effort at qualifying. But Whitmarsh will do it his own stupid way as usual.
You guys are ridiculous....
QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Jul 31 2010, 16:08)
"Congratulations Lewis you are P5."
"You got everything out of the car. P5 is a great place to start from tomorrow."
Than Andy (or Phil ) is lying, too?
"You got everything out of the car. P5 is a great place to start from tomorrow."
Than Andy (or Phil ) is lying, too?
It's not the truth, as he didn't get everything out of the car.
QUOTE (robefc @ Jul 31 2010, 15:18)
Always possible they will try and optimise the strategies for both cars...
Possible but unlikely going by the past 11 races.
QUOTE (Grenada @ Jul 31 2010, 16:14)
Now I'm impressed. Tell me, who do you think will win the title going by what you see at the moment - and who will come out on top - JB or LH?
I'm really surprised you are impressed. I don't know what impresses you.
By what I see at the moment, Vettel will win the title. Hamilton will be 2nd.
QUOTE (robefc @ Jul 31 2010, 16:12)
I don't think he's lying as such, he makes his comments on the radio after a specific lap.
Comments to the bbc are after the whole quali session so he probably feels over the course of the session he was trying his guts out and got the most out of it. Doubt he can even remember his first Q3 lap or whether he lost a tenth at T4!
Comments to the bbc are after the whole quali session so he probably feels over the course of the session he was trying his guts out and got the most out of it. Doubt he can even remember his first Q3 lap or whether he lost a tenth at T4!
You're right, he might have forgotten that. In the end, he got the best result possible. But all the 'every last inch', 'drove my heart out' and similar comments are getting a bit repetitive. And I only mentioned this as on the Mclaren commentary log there's evidence that goes against what they said on tv, the engineer as well as Lewis. And I guess it happens more often.
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 06:21)
It's not the truth, as he didn't get everything out of the car.
You are being pedantic, it was a figure of speech - a compliment meaning that it was a great lap.
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 15:22)
I'm really surprised you are impressed. I don't know what impresses you.
By what I see at the moment, Vettel will win the title. Hamilton will be 2nd.
By what I see at the moment, Vettel will win the title. Hamilton will be 2nd.
I'm always impressed when someone's predictions come true. I wasn't sure who would come out on top in today's qualifying.
But I hope you're wrong about the title. Vettel is one of a few drivers who I would hate to win the title. McLaren have to up their game massively to stop that happening but I'm sure they know that already.
QUOTE (robefc @ Jul 31 2010, 14:44)
PIT: "OK Lewis, hopefully a bit more time to come then."
HAM:"That was a good lap but I lost a bit of time in turn four."
1355: Lewis had a moment at turn four but has continued.
1353: Lewis's first lap is a 1'20.499 which puts him third, eight thousandths of a second slower than Massa.
HAM:"That was a good lap but I lost a bit of time in turn four."
1355: Lewis had a moment at turn four but has continued.
1353: Lewis's first lap is a 1'20.499 which puts him third, eight thousandths of a second slower than Massa.
and what exactly is your point?
QUOTE (simplyfast @ Jul 31 2010, 13:54)
perhaps before people are so quick to write of the car as cr*p they should look at both the WDC and WCC points lists.
Just because the last two tracks have not suited the car certainly does not make it cr*p.
try to remember back longer than just 1 weekend ago.
Just because the last two tracks have not suited the car certainly does not make it cr*p.
try to remember back longer than just 1 weekend ago.
When was Mclaren the car to beat this year
QUOTE (The Ragged Edge @ Jul 31 2010, 16:14)
In the grand scheme of things? What Whitmarsh said about Hamilton losing some time, I honestly dont care, neither was I upset with him for pointing out a fact. The point I made was even a tenth or two quicker Hamilton could have gone, it still left him 1.5 down.
Sure, but that still doesn't explain why he's attacked so much for 'not crediting Hamilton' while all he did was fairly answer a question.
QUOTE (Simon Says @ Jul 31 2010, 06:28)
When was Mclaren the car to beat this year
Montreal probably. It was at least as good as RBR there.
QUOTE (Grenada @ Jul 31 2010, 16:26)
I'm always impressed when someone's predictions come true. I wasn't sure who would come out on top in today's qualifying.
But I hope you're wrong about the title. Vettel is one of a few drivers who I would hate to win the title. McLaren have to up their game massively to stop that happening but I'm sure they know that already.
But I hope you're wrong about the title. Vettel is one of a few drivers who I would hate to win the title. McLaren have to up their game massively to stop that happening but I'm sure they know that already.
For me, Vettel is the only driver who I would hate to win the title, but I don't see how Red Bull can be stopped anymore.
As for today, it was kinda obvious to me. Button struggled on the options the whole weekend. On the primes he's as quick as Lewis, but when the options go on Button loses stability in the car. Been like that the whole weekend.
When Q3 started, I knew Hamilton would get 5th as McLaren usually improves to Q3 while midfield teams often falter and drive slower than in Q2. The only threat was Kubica and he screwed up in his one and only lap.
QUOTE (karlth @ Jul 31 2010, 16:26)
You are being pedantic, it was a figure of speech - a compliment meaning that it was a great lap.
I know, it's usual for an engineer to talk like that to his driver.
But if talking that way is in the form of a compliment, does that mean Lewis compliments himself in his post-qualifying BBC interview?
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 15:28)
Sure, but that still doesn't explain why he's attacked so much for 'not crediting Hamilton' while all he did was fairly answer a question.
Because the syncophantic journo was teeing up an opportunity for him to give LH major praise given the state of the car and JB's failure to make Q3 (this is good for their ratings, by the way.. they are learning from ITV) ... and Whitmarsh (who is a very media savvy guy) deliberately passed up the opportunity and instead chose to be somewhat critical of LH.
... intelligent people can see what is going on.
Plus, we can also put this episode in the context of OTT praise for JB over the past few races despite JB finishing behind LH.
I have not been complaining in this thread about this... I expect no more from Whitmarsh, he has a lot invested in JB's success... but today was just too blatant.
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 15:32)
For me, Vettel is the only driver who I would hate to win the title, but I don't see how Red Bull can be stopped anymore.
As for today, it was kinda obvious to me. Button struggled on the options the whole weekend. On the primes he's as quick as Lewis, but when the options go on Button loses stability in the car. Been like that the whole weekend.
When Q3 started, I knew Hamilton would get 5th as McLaren usually improves to Q3 while midfield teams often falter and drive slower than in Q2. The only threat was Kubica and he screwed up in his one and only lap.
As for today, it was kinda obvious to me. Button struggled on the options the whole weekend. On the primes he's as quick as Lewis, but when the options go on Button loses stability in the car. Been like that the whole weekend.
When Q3 started, I knew Hamilton would get 5th as McLaren usually improves to Q3 while midfield teams often falter and drive slower than in Q2. The only threat was Kubica and he screwed up in his one and only lap.
That's the way I saw it as well.... but JB's failure in Q2 suggests that the car may be harder to drive than they have been letting on.... it is not only this weekend that JB has struggled on options.
QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Jul 31 2010, 15:08)
"Congratulations Lewis you are P5."
"You got everything out of the car. P5 is a great place to start from tomorrow."
Than Andy (or Phil ) is lying, too?
"You got everything out of the car. P5 is a great place to start from tomorrow."
Than Andy (or Phil ) is lying, too?
hahaha! Thanks Bonaventura...
For some idiots here... Lewis is always lying.
For people with brains, the statement "he lost a bit of time in turn four" and he pulled out every inch out of that car is no contradiction, as one can lose a bit of time trying to push the car over its limits. That`s better than any average driver could have done on that car today. (As we witnessed with Jenson today
)
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 15:25)
You're right, he might have forgotten that. In the end, he got the best result possible. But all the 'every last inch', 'drove my heart out' and similar comments are getting a bit repetitive. And I only mentioned this as on the Mclaren commentary log there's evidence that goes against what they said on tv, the engineer as well as Lewis. And I guess it happens more often.
hang `im for that! As far as I can see, he seems to be the best driver at McLaren at the moment. And just a hint... about three rows behind Lewis, you might even see a McLaren driver who "didn`t get the best out of his car"
QUOTE (jjcale @ Jul 31 2010, 16:39)
That's the way I saw it as well.... but JB's failure in Q2 suggests that the car may be harder to drive than they have been letting on.... it is not only this weekend that JB has struggled on options.
A car with high topspeed that's lacking mechanical grip and is too stiff over bumps, yes, I'd say it's hard to drive.
The Mclaren is excellent in braking and had a reasonable dowforce package, until the flexwings showed up. That's about it.
For Jenson, it's tough. But I'm not afraid for tomorrow. All I can say is, watch him at the start.
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 15:32)
For me, Vettel is the only driver who I would hate to win the title, but I don't see how Red Bull can be stopped anymore.
As for today, it was kinda obvious to me. Button struggled on the options the whole weekend. On the primes he's as quick as Lewis, but when the options go on Button loses stability in the car. Been like that the whole weekend.
When Q3 started, I knew Hamilton would get 5th as McLaren usually improves to Q3 while midfield teams often falter and drive slower than in Q2. The only threat was Kubica and he screwed up in his one and only lap.
As for today, it was kinda obvious to me. Button struggled on the options the whole weekend. On the primes he's as quick as Lewis, but when the options go on Button loses stability in the car. Been like that the whole weekend.
When Q3 started, I knew Hamilton would get 5th as McLaren usually improves to Q3 while midfield teams often falter and drive slower than in Q2. The only threat was Kubica and he screwed up in his one and only lap.
Thanks.
QUOTE (Lights @ Jul 31 2010, 15:49)
A car with high topspeed that's lacking mechanical grip and is too stiff over bumps, yes, I'd say it's hard to drive.
The Mclaren is excellent in braking and had a reasonable dowforce package, until the flexwings showed up. That's about it.
For Jenson, it's tough. But I'm not afraid for tomorrow. All I can say is, watch him at the start.
The Mclaren is excellent in braking and had a reasonable dowforce package, until the flexwings showed up. That's about it.
For Jenson, it's tough. But I'm not afraid for tomorrow. All I can say is, watch him at the start.
What is your prediction for tomorrow?
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