Lewis 7 > 3 Jenson

Lewis is performing better although the points standings do not suggest by that much. In the bbc coverage of silverstone Murray hit on the notion I was pointing out at the beginning. These two WCs are like no other WC pairing before, because they're both British. If they break free of other teams, something may change. Then again if the battle with another team gets really close and one driver has the edge over the other (Lewis), Red Bull style favouritism arguements may just surface....

McLaren manages always to give Button a strategy which allows him to gain positions

Yes theres not enough laps to make a comparison, Jenson didnt have enough laps in clear air

No the point you made was that the rules favour Jenson. The point I am making is that the rules do not benefit Jenson more than Lewis. History shows that great drivers succeed in these conditions.

ps. Its where they finish at the end of the season that counts.

Lame excuse?
My favorite was that the only reason Button won in Australia was because Hamilton was distracted by his run in with the Melbourne traffic police!

Whats your take on Canada?

Than do it !

Be fair and square

Or don't you have the balls therefore?

It's not nice to lough behind the back of other people
this is somehow childish


(Sorry, for OT)

I can't see a Red Bull-style situation between Button and Hamilton at all this season unless they clash and argue about who was to blame like the RBR boys did. McLaren seems to be walking the walk as well as talking the talk when it comes to drivers getting equal treatment, and the fact that Lewis and Jenson seem to get along well is just the icing on the cake. Whitmarsh's re-organising of the garage means there are no secrets, everything's shared, and they both go out on the best setup available.

Plus Jenson strikes me as a driver who can take it on the chin when his team mate beats him. I don't doubt he's massively disappointed and determined to get one over on Lewis next time out, but he can take it without spitting his dummy. Hamilton, a little to my surprise if I'm honest (hey - best way to avoid fanboyism ;), took it very well earlier in the season when Jenson seemed to be on a roll and I think he too will be fine if/when Button beats him in a future race. When one driver starts to face mathematical exclusion from the WDC it might get a bit more tense and the relationship less luvvy-luvvy but I can't see it getting to the state that Webber and Vettel's relationship is in after Silverstone i.e. tatters.

Considering all your posts on here, your doing your best to convince us that Bonaventrura would only be a few points behind Lewis due to all the kind rules, luck and team help that McLaren give their utterly shit 2nd driver.

I just wonder how you reconcile in your mind how super-God-Lewis is evidently being pushed to consistently perform at his career best level in order to shade ahead of his teammate by such a miniscule amount in the grand scheme of things....

It was said that it affected his qualifying not the race

Funny that Whitmarsh came up with this excuse.
He said Lewis was distracted, and it had definitifely affected his performance at qualy
That Lewis takes such things to much to heart.
Lewis himself didn't want to use it as an excuse, he said it had no affect on him, but his teamchef contradicted him.

Well... the preseason preamble focused on how Button was smooth, would manage his tires etc. Hamilton was aggressive head strong etc.

Most pundits did believe that the rules favored Button.

Dont get me wrong they are both doing a great job, just Hamilton at the half way point is beating Button.

Us Button' fans are quite insulted when "some" of you Hamilton fans disregard Jenson's abilities like Nelson Piquet or Heikki. Jenson may not be the best but he is a top shelf driver and we accept that Hamilton does infact have ultimate raw pace (.2-.4 at best) but winning races and the championship isn't all about pure raw pace.

To me one of the surprises of the season has been how ridiculously durable the prime Bridgestone tyres have been all year. Bernie wants that to change for next year (and Pirelli seems to agree) so tyre management might be much more of a factor next year. It looks to me though like it's more important to have a car that is easy on the tyres than a driver who excels at it. But it should be one of the interesting parts of Jenson vs Lewis take 2 IMO.

I answered to Lights who was concered about, Buttons changing engineers, and that it may have a negatve effect on his race stategys

BTW, I'm honoured that you read all my posts, and that you care about my mind, and you really think about it
could sadly not confirm that I read all yours, too.
I solemnly pledge amendment

*Yes, I'm proud that I would only be a few points behind Lewis, if I was a racing driver

Please stop discussing each other.

So, all Lewis has is raw pace?
Nothing more?

MW about the upgrades for Silverstone "Lewis will still say that he thought we should have raced it and, from the data, I think he's not wrong."

sorry perhaps i should have been less fair on Jenson rather than pointing out that he did have slower cars infront i could have just pointed out teh fact that when a jenson fan said lewis was almost never more than 0.1 seconds faster than Jenson he was talking from somewhere behind himself.
After all it would have been the truth heck don't try to be fair to Jenson when the facts show something they don't like just state the facts and let the fanboys moan as its clear some here will moan when the facts are not inline with what they wish was true.
So lets just say for almost 1/2 the race Jenson was over 1 second a lap slower than lewis

Lewis was both considerably faster in qualifying and race pace as was easily seen.

Since when did you start believing a word that comes out of MW mouth?

To be fair, no one cares what most pundits think, half of them talk a surprising amount of bollocks for people who have been in and around the sport so long.

To be frank i barely even understand what your talking about or what your point is. Is it that someone said Jenson never lapped less than 1 tenth slower than Lewis in the race? Because then that would be incorrect ofcourse Somehow though, i doubt that was the point the person was trying to put forward, maybe you should go back and reread the post you initially replied to with your lap time analysis.

Well it should be.

'looking after tyres' or 'managing resources' is the same as 'watching a driver go as slowly as possible'. I hate it.

I mean you have the best drivers in the world in the most advanced cars and you make them drive as slowly as they can get away with! Stupid.

It should be a 'balls out, tyre screeching limit pushing frenzy'

Lewis is probably the best driver in the world right now.
Jenson has proven he is a thinking man's racing driver and can make the most of any situation. Furthermore, Jenson is probably the most professional and gentlemanly driver in the sport.

This duo reminds me of Clark and Hill. I just don't see them falling out, they get on too well and they are pushing each other to be better overall race car drivers.

As a fan of Lewis (I honestly questioned Jenson's sanity when he signed for McLaren), Jenson has surprised me this year and I would not be surprised one bit if Jenson gets another championship in his career, even if that takes another decade.

Why the squabbling.

I agree with Senna da Silva - Lewis Hamilton is the top driver in F1 at the moment. But Jenson Button has come up leaps and bounds over the past two years and shown that a.) he has the balls to take on a driver of Hamilton's caliber and b.) though he may not be as fast or all round as good as Lewis, he does have maturity and race craft that have put him alot closer to Hamilton than most of us expected. For that I salute him.

You took the malformed words right out of my mouth.

+1

Extremely well put and as another Hamilton fan I second your remarks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/front_page/8812926.stm



Button struggling to heat up the tyres. Ah well, at least we know why Button didn't make it to Q3.

I only stated the pure fact as an information,who came with it up first,( without any personal judgment, whom I believe or not.)
to show, that is was none of the Lewis fans as somebody wrote here
Everybody can decide if he or, whom he believes it or not

Lewis said it didn't affect or disttract him, he was simply not fast enough

Believe what ever you want

Well winning an F1 title has never been about pure pace.
Some people seem to think that during the era of refuling and tyre wars that was all it was about.
How wrong they are. Even in that era, set up, conditions, tyre management, mechanical management, track position, racecraft, pit and race strategy, incidents, weather, reliability, concentration, mentality and confidence etc ALL had influence on the final standings.
Its a sophisticated series to find the best driver/car combination under slightly more testing circumstances than the ROC!

Aw, I was going to use that quote
I think that this has been Buttons fundamental problem this year (and last year tbh). In my opinion he has shown that, when he qualifies at the front, he can race with the RB's and Lewis. What surprises me though is that he hasn't worked out a method to get his tires hot yet. Must be more tricky than it appears.

Harder then my suggestion of a big smokey 4th gear burnout I guess.

Fair enough i wasnt sure what you meant


Jenson shouldnt really be blaming the car after qualifying then

I think that quote explains something else better to me.... what was going on with last years car.

When they had upgrades in the 2nd half with the outwash frontwing and so, suddenly Lewis was able to really destroy Kov. in qualy and race....and Kov. was always experiencing tyre management issues in the race.

My armchair engineer theory is they were able to generate much better front downforce with the Germany 2009 upgrades but the backend with the bulky sidepods/no effective DDD remained s*** in downforce. Hence a faster but oversteer car like this weekend.

Heikki known to have a similar driving style to Button couldnt cope with that, he seemed to have same problems just described. Struggled to warm his tires, and when he finally did...they fell off relatively quickly. The problem cant be as pronounced bcos the current 25 is simply a better car, much better downforce at the back, no kers to mess with weight distribution, better FW.

So what about Buttons very good race result? First, having all that fuel at the back of the car at the start helped with balance. Also, Button is a more experienced driver than Kovy and one with simply better racecraft hence able to take his chances in the first lap and get up to 8th. After that, he never really had clear air to put the hammer down, hence could just sit and save tires. When he had clear air, he put some fast laps, but then lap times fell off a bit, looked like tires seemed to start giving away, especially in the 3rd sector which is alot about traction you can get from fresh tires.

I'm fairly convinced I may be up to something. From Heikki's perspective, Its a shame he didnt get a chance with a much better car...having Lewis do magic beside him didnt help his case either.

The bolded are the things I think it should be about. The rest shouldn't have a bearing on the result IMO. Who wants to see a race won by pitting?

maybe, but the fact that Kovy did well in qualy but not the races would go against that a bit.

qualifying was with fuel load. and some said Heikki's setup was optimal for qualifying? Button was generally average in qualifying anyway, fuel load or not.

nope...I'm talking bout 2nd half of 2009, after the Germany upgrades.

Kov was easily bettered both qualy and race...b4 that he was closer to Lewis

matter of fact, after confirming the stats... he never outqualified Lewis again apart from the rain-hit Brazilian GP. Not only that, he never set a faster Q2 time (where both cars are with minimum fuel).

Are the tyres part of his anatomy then?!

ok ok i stand corrected

Ah yes, we know. The same reason why he failed at qualifying in the second half of 2009.

You would think he'd learn.

Post qualifying from Jenson there was probably a problem with the car. Post race he claims that problem went away on high fuel but returned when on low fuel. From Lowe we hear it was a tyre warming issue. They're all over the place!

The cars are the same as at qualy only with fuel or different tyres if you are not in the top 10
Changes are not allowed
so it has to be the weight, and the balance with fuel

Without looking at the date, a driver will always speculate on what the problem is/was. Button had no technical brief immediately after qualifying and went straight for the press interviews and made the first comment he thought attributed to his lack of performance.

If Lewis hadn't had his Barcelona failure, he would have been leading Button by 30 points now. That shows a clear lack of speed in my opinion as he has been a regular points finisher.

don't know if it as been posted here, but for sure it's great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8_2PKsj_0A...player_embedded

so mutch better than the " my one is nicer. My one is faster"

That was fantastic

Another good video.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8807651.stm
Lewis and Jenson at a pub quiz.

That's hilarious! Thanks!!

I'm just wating for the Vettel/Webber and Alonso/Massa videos now...

I wouldn't hold your breath.