7 - 2 - surely Barc counts for LH...

So you started and now you don't want it?

Remind me.
Check carefully though.

Hello Albert

We all underestimated the impact of the new regs.

Probably almost as many as underestimated Jenson Button.

Ok, it was "Clatter" on page 1 (15. Nov 2009) of this thread who used the word "if" the first time.

Very good.

The point I was making, though, was that the post I quoted could be paraphrased as 'If it wasn't for the safety car...'
In no way could my observation on that be construed as a dig at Lewis - but the response is another 'Lucky Jenson' post.

If were not allowed ifs, its 6-3.

To make things easier you can keep two scores, the actual results and the results that you believe represent the performances of the drivers on that day.

well said, ill admit i thought jenson wouldnt do as well as he has done, but im more than happy to admit i was wrong, such a happy go lucky guy yet massively determined.

Lewis has been luckier than Jenson this season.

That's not how it works in vs threads... on any forum I have been a part of. When a driver retires due to a mechanical failure 2 laps from the end with his team mate a few places behind and well beaten over the whole weekend, that's not an "if".

What is the point of a vs thread if we slavisily follow the classification.... I credit my fellow posters with sufficient understanding of F1 to know which situations merit departure from the classification and which do not.... I hope I am not being too optimistic.

Jenson is going to blow Lewis into the weeds at Silverstone, he'll be at least half a second quicker.

Jenson, Lewis, luck - who cares!. I'd say McLaren have been the 'luckiest' so far: for somehow getting Button to leave Brawn and partner Hamilton in an all Brit team; for Button being gutsy enough to partner (probably) the best F1 driver at the moment; for Hamilton continuing to do what he does best and light up the track with gung ho driving and grab it by the scruff of the neck speed; for Button turning out to be a damn good catch and doing better than almost everyone expected; for getting some great results and overhauling the seemingly dominant Redbulls; and for giving us a pair of gentlemanly drivers with enough difference in style and approach to keep this thread running, and to be close enough to mean that half way through the season its all still to play for

I feel like I will quote you in 2 weeks, and I'll be like that:

You're completely right, but you're in the bitch thread, the Mclaren thread is somewhere else.

I will be surprised, if he can do that, because Jenson was beaten by Rubens in all 4 Silverstone qualifyings and races they attend together in Honda/Brawn... And Rubens is no Lewis...

This seems to come up after every race but I'm not sure if it's the same person/people or newcomers to the thread!

Ah, a cross reference. I guess when Jenson does beat Lewis, you'll be saying Rubens>>>Lewis at Silverstone?

mkay my tougue was firmly in my cheek when I said that. I didn't think any emoticons were necessary .

I'll bite, are you basing that on avoiding penalties or...?

He is kidding us

You don't think jenson being beaten by his teammate repeatedly at a track is relevant to his potential to beat LH there?

Let's just say, he has surprised me at times on venues with bad records.

These cross references are overused.

Fat Albert!

Did someone take a dump in your coffee in Trantor in order to bring you over here?

You are quite right though..... Button is the Greame Swann of F1.

Tis good being a British F1 fan right now.....

Barcelona was the F1 gods giving Lewis the penalty the FIA should have previously.

Really? 18 points for what exactly Lewis did pre-Barca?

Racing Vettel in the pitlane in China almost sliding into Williams mechanics and his completely against the rules manoeuvrings with Petrov in Malaysia.

Oh and Vettel should have got a penalty for leaning on Lewis in that same pit lane incident.

All in all, Jenson leading the WDC nice and comfy.

Well he got them right back with a bit of luck in Valencia.

If Hamilton puts the manners again on Button around Silverstone, this will be all the evidence any reasonable person would need to come to the conclusion Hamilton is faster. Enough of the 2010 season has elapsed to say Button is 2-3 tenths slower. IMO if not for the new rules, the gap between Hamilton and Button would be even greater.

Pretty pointless imho bashing Jenson for not wasting a lot of time and effort overtaking someone he knew had to pit before the end of the race.

Lewis is 2-3 tenths faster, IMO if not for the new rules the gap would be even smaller probably Jenson even ahead. More pit stops and strategies for Lewis to mess up and get more penalties for.

The single funniest post I think I've ever read here (by a non-Spaniard).

Glad you like my mini trolling.

He's out-Jeaging Jeag

Spoof troll

Suprised, really? And on which tracks? He has only two good grandprix at Monaco, all other were average, or bad... He had similar problems in Catalunya and Silverstone is also not very good for him... But let s see, what he can do there this year... And on other hand he was most of the time good in Istanbul Park, Melbourne and Shanghai... He proved that also this year... Only surprise was Bahrain, but the track layout changed and Malaysia... Button was in the past fast almost constantly on circuits designed by Tilke...

Lovin' it!

We all know Lewis is faster, there isn't really much to debate about regarding pure speed. Its Button's other qualities that allow him to make back up some of his lack of pure speed in races that have kept this thread running.

One interesting thing I heard on the Valencia BBC broadcast was that Martin Brundle thought that maybe Lewis had developed his driving to be less aggressive at times, Do people think that is true? did he learn it from Button or was it a requirement of the new rules. I am specifically thinking of times when they are each faster in different sectors due to their styles and in theory Lewis can see this is time sheets and adapt to make him a faster driver. (I am not sure Button has the ability to copy Lewis' style in the same way as it is a very on the edge style lewis uses.)

Ultimately is lewis going to become a faster f1 driver due to partnering with Jenson?

Lewis was always going to become better by partnering Jenson, people who say otherwise don't know what they're talking about.

And I was right.

"We all know Lewis is faster, there isn't really much to debate about regarding pure speed. Its Button's other qualities that allow him to make back up some of his lack of pure speed in races that have kept this thread running"

I agree with you in this... I see Button being generally quicker over race distance then in qualifying. He is just not a "man of one flying lap"... I think there were some similar examples in history - Ronnie Peterson and Emerson Fittipaldi - Ronnie being quicker, but Emerson reliable... The same goes for duo Jim Clark and Graham Hill, or Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost... And I have the feeling there is an another duo in current field except Hamilton and Button, who are playing the quicker and the reliabler...

Well, you gave some examples already.

Which tracks.. I know Jenson has done well at Silverstone in the past. He drove a cracking race in 2003, was on it in 2004 and 2005, got most out of the car. After partnering Rubens, he indeed never got it together, but that doesn't say he won't get it together this year.

Same in Monaco, he never looked any good there in his early years, yet in 2003 he looked very quick until his accident on Saturday. In 2004 he got 2nd. After that he became useless at the track, but then look what he did in 2009, a textbook Monaco victory, while you'd think it would be Barrichello's turn to shine.

In Catalunya he always had problems, it's not his track. Yet in 2008 he got 6th in the sh*t Honda, and the year after he won it.

Another example: he was never any good at Melbourne. Never got any good results, never been on the podium. Now he won two consecutive races there.

That's why I don't want to rule him out just because he hasn't done well at Silverstone the last couple of years. It's still F1. Why the hell not.

agree

Since we're IFing about....!!!

If Hamilton had been penalised for due to his team pit releases and pitlane racing in China and Canada
If Hamilton had been penalised for weaving in Malaysia
If McLaren hadn't called off the race in Turkey
If he had broken his wing when he touched Vettel in Valencia
If he had been black flagged for overtaking the SC in Valenca

The same could be said.

If-ing, nice
now but-ing
but .... but, but
(we could play this game endlessly)


McLaren called the race in Canada off?
sorry, there was no need to do it ,Button had no chance to match Hamilton at Canada.

From what I have read on here, there is already broad consensus that Hamilton is faster, since before the season started. Most Button supporters agree with that, on the evidence of their respective careers in F1 to date. One more race isn't going to dramatically change that. But, Formula One's best drivers and multiple world champions are not necessarily the out and out fastest ones - as history shows.

The BIG question is, who is going to rack up the most points over the season as a consequence of one lap pace, race pace, set up, team interaction, race craft, strategic calls, judegments of aggression and prudence, etc, etc? You see, as much as we all like to talk about the fact its 6-2 or 7-3 to Lewis in races, so far, it is not the criteria these two are racing to. They are both in it to become world champion, and I for one am ultimately interested in that. The object of the exercise!


I'm not sure that Hamilton beating Button in Silverstone will convince me that the outcome of this is a foregone conclusion. Button remains in deficit to Hamiltons raw pace, in my opinion, but level or ahead in some other, what I would describe as 'equally important' factors (which I can't be arsed to go into again today). And I think the championship scoreboard currently illustrates that point rather well.

Sorry I meant Turkey. I'll edit. Still, not a serious post exactly.

To Melbourne - he maybe didn t have results there, but it doesn t mean, he wasn t quick... Just remember his excellent Pole with Honda in year 2006...

Yes, I think Button is proving more able to do what many ex-drivers advised Alonso to do in his season at McLaren. You don't need to be faster, just smarter.

I think that Hamilton has had to raise his game accordingly as there are only really fine differences between the two of them and neither will be able to afford to let up in their battle. As things stand, neither driver has let themselves down. I hope they can both keep it up.