The AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board > Jenson and Lewis Scorecard 2010 [merged]

robefc

Jun 17 2010, 11:29

QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jun 17 2010, 12:12)

Its 'realistic' might have been better way to put it.

I think if you add the 18 points to hamilton's score it would be a more accurate reflection of how well they've performed but that's just me.
(I know you could add some points for button in monaco but that was at the start of the race and then we could consider hamilton in oz with webber etc ec, Barcelona is the only one cut and dried for me.)

I say that because 6-2 is a pretty wide gap but button has managed to finish just behind lewis for his 2 wins so the points should necessarily be closer than 6-2 would reflect.

A gap equivalent to 10 points in old money I think would put them both about where they should be relative to each other on merit so far this season.

That basically gives both drivers full credit for all their performances, simply that that means hamilton gets points for his efforts in barcelona which obviously aren't reflected in the table.

Clatter

Jun 17 2010, 11:32

QUOTE (Jeag @ Jun 17 2010, 12:11)

Jenson was "well beaten" by Lewis in Barcelona when he qualified a tenth behind him and raced from lap 3 having to guess what gear he was even in, had no rev counter to make that job even more difficult, lost everything else that comes with a F1 cars dash and had a terrible pit stop that put him into the clutches of MS where he stayed the rest of the race as its retarded trying to overtake around Barca let alone when you have no dash.

Funny when stuff like that is left out when all we EVER hear in this thread is all of Lewis' problems and how the team lets him down when Jenson finishes ahead but the other way around apparently Jenson was "well beaten".

bauss

Jun 17 2010, 11:32

lol for Lewis fans,

remember the coverage after Australia, China or after Spain... when all the talk was about Jenson 2 wins to Lewis 0, leading in points, leading in qualifying,

the "slow, calm and strategic" winning over "fast, brash and inexperienced" etc etc...the articles, that James Allen one, the Couthard one bout how Lewis needs a manager fast or his season will implode, the BBC coverage with Jake (firmly on Buttons side btw) implying Lewis is already getting alienated in the Mclaren garage and how Jenson is winning everyone over with his charm etc...21 points down on Button. Some already writing him off in the WDC race

3 races later, bang bang bang, he is up there...haters slowly shrinking away...you might think he deserves to be further away from Button given how he has driven... but when you put all in perspective, its a decent position. 11 races to go, still ample opportunity to reflect his driving superiority (IMO) in the points table.

Anssi

Jun 17 2010, 11:38

That's how it goes with this thing, people are being hysterical (as in the disease). Also, it seems most attempts at trying to bring some sense into it go unnoticed or are flamed and trolled. Thankfully there are some people around at forums such as this who are not that hysterical - it makes reading forums a bit more enjoyable, and gives me hope that the human race is not totally lost.

Grenada

Jun 17 2010, 11:44

QUOTE (Jeag @ Jun 17 2010, 12:02)

Funnily enough i actually agree with you, dunno what it is but i sense slight favoritism for Jenson from some members of the BBC especially Jake and that guy Legard .

And DC. Brundle and Jordan not so much.

I wouldn't mind them gushing over Button, if they also weren't snidey about Hamilton (like after the Australian GP), or similarly gushed over Hamilton for his great drives. They said practically nothing after Canada about Hamilton's drive (except surprise from DC about Hamilton managing to beat Button despite the tyre blah blah), whereas if Button had had a weekend like Hamilton's - pole, great overtakes despite the slow pitstop, managing his tyres over 44 laps, increasing the pace when the car behind was closing at the end only as much as needed, controlled, masterful, quick - gosh, we'd never hear the end of it in the post-race forum!

Obi Offiah

Jun 17 2010, 11:49

QUOTE (Grenada @ Jun 17 2010, 12:44)

And DC. Brundle and Jordan not so much.

I wouldn't mind them gushing over Button, if they also weren't snidey about Hamilton (like after the Australian GP), or similarly gushed over Hamilton for his great drives. They said practically nothing after Canada about Hamilton's drive (except surprise from DC about Hamilton managing to beat Button despite the tyre blah blah), whereas if Button had had a weekend like Hamilton's - pole, great overtakes despite the slow pitstop, managing his tyres over 44 laps, increasing the pace when the car behind was closing at the end only as much as needed, controlled, masterful, quick - gosh, we'd never hear the end of it in the post-race forum!

I think part of the enthusiasm over Jenson's wins were because the were unexpected as were his performances relative to Lewis. The funny thing is that when Lewis is faster they say Jenson isn't quite happy with the car (indicating and stating that he is expected to match Lewis). Its never a case of Lewis being simply faster, however that could be part of having a lively and interesting commentary and part of it may be a little more support for the supposed underdog?

Grenada

Jun 17 2010, 11:50

QUOTE (bauss @ Jun 17 2010, 12:32)

lol for Lewis fans,

remember the coverage after Australia, China or after Spain... when all the talk was about Jenson 2 wins to Lewis 0, leading in points, leading in qualifying,

the "slow, calm and strategic" winning over "fast, brash and inexperienced" etc etc...the articles, that James Allen one, the Couthard one bout how Lewis needs a manager fast or his season will implode, the BBC coverage with Jake (firmly on Buttons side btw) implying Lewis is already getting alienated in the Mclaren garage and how Jenson is winning everyone over with his charm etc...21 points down on Button. Some already writing him off in the WDC race

3 races later, bang bang bang, he is up there...haters slowly shrinking away...you might think he deserves to be further away from Button given how he has driven... but when you put all in perspective, its a decent position. 11 races to go, still ample opportunity to reflect his driving superiority (IMO) in the points table.

Very well said. The BBC coverage after Australia was just appalling. That will never be forgotten.

Clatter

Jun 17 2010, 11:52

QUOTE (Grenada @ Jun 17 2010, 12:50)

Very well said. The BBC coverage after Australia was just appalling. That will never be forgotten.

I've forgotten it.

Obi Offiah

Jun 17 2010, 11:53

QUOTE (Clatter @ Jun 17 2010, 12:52)

I've forgotten it.

fed up

Jun 17 2010, 11:57

QUOTE (bauss @ Jun 17 2010, 12:32)

lol for Lewis fans,

remember the coverage after Australia, China or after Spain... when all the talk was about Jenson 2 wins to Lewis 0, leading in points, leading in qualifying,

the "slow, calm and strategic" winning over "fast, brash and inexperienced" etc etc...the articles, that James Allen one, the Couthard one bout how Lewis needs a manager fast or his season will implode, the BBC coverage with Jake (firmly on Buttons side btw) implying Lewis is already getting alienated in the Mclaren garage and how Jenson is winning everyone over with his charm etc...21 points down on Button. Some already writing him off in the WDC race

3 races later, bang bang bang, he is up there...haters slowly shrinking away...you might think he deserves to be further away from Button given how he has driven... but when you put all in perspective, its a decent position. 11 races to go, still ample opportunity to reflect his driving superiority (IMO) in the points table.

Word!

Yorkie

Jun 17 2010, 12:01

QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jun 17 2010, 11:58)

But the gap closed so he wasn't faster, by the original posters logic.

I'm just saying, if a leader leads the 2nd placed guy over the last stint, it basically means he had enough in his pocket to avoid being overtaken. And that applies equally to Hamilton in Canada as it does to Button in China. Analysing the actual times doesn't tell the real story.

QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jun 17 2010, 11:59)

If the race was longer? WTF has that got to do with the number of fish in the sea?! They'd both have run out of fuel, presumably.

The 2 races arent comparable, in Canada Lewis was cruising, in China Jenson was flat out.

In China when Lewis got ahead of Rosberg the race was on, both were flat out, Jenson was pulling away, Lewis then slowed because his tyres were going away and he was afraid he would burn them out and be vulnerable to Rosberg. With about 2 to 3 laps to go it started to rain again and Jenson went off, then he was struggling with lack of heat in his tyres whilst Lewis was catching him, you call that cruising.

In Canada when Jenson got passed Alonso the race was on, Jenson started to catch Lewis going from 4 seconds behind to 2 seconds behind, Lewis then upped his pace by 1 second a lap for 3 laps to take the gap by out to 4 seconds to Jenson, the team then told Lewis to slow down again, thats what i call cruising

hotstickyslick

Jun 17 2010, 12:08

QUOTE (WitnessX @ Jun 17 2010, 09:54)

The conditions I saw were not exactly changeable, it was fairly obvious to me that the track was drying off, there was a dry racing line for most of the track. There was some talk about "rain expected in 10 minutes" on somebodies radio. Even in ten minutes switching from the worn intermediates onto fresh slicks on a drying track you can not only regain your pitstop time but gain an advantage. Its just a question of "is it drivable" or not, this is a judgement only the driver can make. Normally the big teams wait for somebody at the back to try it and check the sector times. The question is why didn't anybody else try it? JB judged it was drivable for him. In this case it played a big role.

For those who say it was a "gamble", wasn't it also a "gamble" staying out on inters on a virtually dry track? - take RBR , what were they doing leaving the cars out?

As for "lottery" race, the decision for the slicks did not win him the race, it only gained him track position, he was effectively third after the position cleanup. From then on (50 odd laps left?) it was a dry race. I respect your personal definition of a "lottery race" but it doesn't match mine.

..and at China too, people tend to forget that the advantage gained by staying out on the slicks was anihilated by the safety car.

Did he know that he was going to go off into the gravel? Did he judge that? Certainly not!

The decision was simply damage limitation, either lose places and time on worn inters or make a gamble that could pay off in a big way. It's perfectly understandable what Button did.

Of course, but track position is always the greatest advantage.

Lottery races shouldn't be taken seriously.

Rinehart

Jun 17 2010, 12:10

QUOTE (demoing @ Jun 17 2010, 12:17)

but not very likely as it was the friction (caused by the wheel nut not being fitted correctly, allowing the wheel to come lose) that caused the heat build up which of course is a function of how many times the wheel went round which is derived from how far it had travelled not an extra 0.5MHP average speed.
Incase you forget it was the Heat build up beyond normal levels that caused the stress factor that was why the rim failed.
But that is science for you no room for imagined ifs and but's just cold hard facts

Your speculating just as much as I am. Heat build up in that area is also attributed to brake temperature and stress is also attributed to the actual load on the RIM, from the contact patch of the tyre. We're all ifs and butting here, but I reckon I am on solid footing that at half the speed (so twice the laps to achive the same distance) there would have been less chance of a failure.

Rinehart

Jun 17 2010, 12:12

QUOTE (robefc @ Jun 17 2010, 12:29)

I think if you add the 18 points to hamilton's score it would be a more accurate reflection of how well they've performed but that's just me.

But that's my point, I don't think it would, because you then have to credit back Vettel with all his points lost through reliability and he'd be miles ahead. Is that an accurate reflection or does it only apply to Hamilton?

Rinehart

Jun 17 2010, 12:17

QUOTE (bauss @ Jun 17 2010, 12:32)

lol for Lewis fans,

remember the coverage after Australia, China or after Spain... when all the talk was about Jenson 2 wins to Lewis 0, leading in points, leading in qualifying,

the "slow, calm and strategic" winning over "fast, brash and inexperienced" etc etc...the articles, that James Allen one, the Couthard one bout how Lewis needs a manager fast or his season will implode, the BBC coverage with Jake (firmly on Buttons side btw) implying Lewis is already getting alienated in the Mclaren garage and how Jenson is winning everyone over with his charm etc...21 points down on Button. Some already writing him off in the WDC race

3 races later, bang bang bang, he is up there...haters slowly shrinking away...you might think he deserves to be further away from Button given how he has driven... but when you put all in perspective, its a decent position. 11 races to go, still ample opportunity to reflect his driving superiority (IMO) in the points table.

Perhaps you are oblivious to the irony that the same mistake is being made to Button now. Button's been beaten in the last few races so it's obviously game over... seems to be the wisdom of some those who didn't like the fact that Button got off to a good start.

Rinehart

Jun 17 2010, 12:18

QUOTE (Clatter @ Jun 17 2010, 12:52)

I've forgotten it.

Rinehart

Jun 17 2010, 12:21

QUOTE (Yorkie @ Jun 17 2010, 13:01)

The 2 races arent comparable, in Canada Lewis was cruising, in China Jenson was flat out.

In China when Lewis got ahead of Rosberg the race was on, both were flat out, Jenson was pulling away, Lewis then slowed because his tyres were going away and he was afraid he would burn them out and be vulnerable to Rosberg. With about 2 to 3 laps to go it started to rain again and Jenson went off, then he was struggling with lack of heat in his tyres whilst Lewis was catching him, you call that cruising.

In Canada when Jenson got passed Alonso the race was on, Jenson started to catch Lewis going from 4 seconds behind to 2 seconds behind, Lewis then upped his pace by 1 second a lap for 3 laps to take the gap by out to 4 seconds to Jenson, the team then told Lewis to slow down again, thats what i call cruising

Yorkie, take an 'objectivity pill' please.

Pingu Pi

Jun 17 2010, 12:28

QUOTE (hotstickyslick @ Jun 17 2010, 13:08)

Did he know that he was going to go off into the gravel? Did he judge that? Certainly not!

The decision was simply damage limitation, either lose places and time on worn inters or make a gamble that could pay off in a big way. It's perfectly understandable what Button did.

Of course, but track position is always the greatest advantage.

Lottery races shouldn't be taken seriously.

sums it up nicely

Button's tyres we're dead and he was going backwards, he had one option, try a gamblew, he done it, went into the gravel, then the track came to the tyres and it paid off. it wasn't even much of a gamble as he was going to be going backwards otherwise, it was the only realistic option to take at the time. so anybody who calls it 'inspired' is forgetting how the situation unfolded in melbourne.

he drove a good race from there on, with good pace, but thats about it in melbourne.

Pingu Pi

Jun 17 2010, 12:31

QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jun 17 2010, 13:21)

Yorkie, take an 'objectivity pill' please.

but that exactly what happened in both occasions... button came out after china and said when he went off in his tyres were gone and he couldn't get heat in them, lewis was catching him. a lap more and lewis would have had a chance at him.

Canada is exactly what happened aswell, button passed alonso picked up 2 seconds so lewis banged in some fast times which knocked button back, lewis' engineer them told him to slow down, we see you have the pace.

peroa

Jun 17 2010, 12:32

QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jun 17 2010, 14:21)

Yorkie, take an 'objectivity pill' please.

What did really happen according to your objectivity?

Jeag

Jun 17 2010, 12:34

QUOTE (bauss @ Jun 17 2010, 12:32)

lol for Lewis fans,

remember the coverage after Australia, China or after Spain... when all the talk was about Jenson 2 wins to Lewis 0, leading in points, leading in qualifying,

the "slow, calm and strategic" winning over "fast, brash and inexperienced" etc etc...the articles, that James Allen one, the Couthard one bout how Lewis needs a manager fast or his season will implode, the BBC coverage with Jake (firmly on Buttons side btw) implying Lewis is already getting alienated in the Mclaren garage and how Jenson is winning everyone over with his charm etc...21 points down on Button. Some already writing him off in the WDC race

3 races later, bang bang bang, he is up there...haters slowly shrinking away...you might think he deserves to be further away from Button given how he has driven... but when you put all in perspective, its a decent position. 11 races to go, still ample opportunity to reflect his driving superiority (IMO) in the points table.

The Irony seems lost on you.

hotstickyslick

Jun 17 2010, 12:36

Nurburgring 2007 was lead by Markus Winkelhock before the red flag. Inspired I tells ya! Nah, just goes to show that anything can happen when the realm of uncertainty plays a hand in a race.

I'd rather see Button beat Hamilton at a race where there are no such uncertainties.

bauss

Jun 17 2010, 12:37

QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jun 17 2010, 13:17)

Perhaps you are oblivious to the irony that the same mistake is being made to Button now. Button's been beaten in the last few races so it's obviously game over... seems to be the wisdom of some those who didn't like the fact that Button got off to a good start.

not really, there'll still be twist and turns on the way....just saying its a much better position for Lewis fans than 3 races or so ago.

I remember reading this forum and guys talking bout how Lewis will have an advantage once we have 'normal' races were being ridiculed.

The diff. btw where we at now and wher we were 3 races ago is... then, Lewis was been beaten by weather elements, botched strategies, wheelnuts and so...trying to point this out fell on deaf ears, it was always Lewis fault somehow.
Now, races are a bit more straightforward, Button is being beaten by pure pace.

If he doesnt start finding extra speed in qualy, the points lead will stretch. Its worth noting that Lewis banker lap in q3, Turkey and Canada were not bested by Jenson's best q3 times which means Lewis has/had a bit of a margin of error at the moment in qualy and can afford a less than perfect final lap and still best his teammate. And we are told Lewis one lap pace is average

robefc

Jun 17 2010, 12:41

QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jun 17 2010, 13:12)

But that's my point, I don't think it would, because you then have to credit back Vettel with all his points lost through reliability and he'd be miles ahead. Is that an accurate reflection or does it only apply to Hamilton?

Well in the lewis v jenson thread it only applies to lewis and jenson

Yorkie

Jun 17 2010, 12:56

QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jun 17 2010, 13:12)

But that's my point, I don't think it would, because you then have to credit back Vettel with all his points lost through reliability and he'd be miles ahead. Is that an accurate reflection or does it only apply to Hamilton?

QUOTE (robefc @ Jun 17 2010, 13:41)

Well in the lewis v jenson thread it only applies to lewis and jenson

Exactly, whats that got to do with the price of sugar?

Bonaventura

Jun 17 2010, 13:24

QUOTE (bauss @ Jun 17 2010, 13:37)

not really, there'll still be twist and turns on the way....just saying its a much better position for Lewis fans than 3 races or so ago.

I remember reading this forum and guys talking bout how Lewis will have an advantage once we have 'normal' races were being ridiculed.

The diff. btw where we at now and wher we were 3 races ago is... then, Lewis was been beaten by weather elements, botched strategies, wheelnuts and so...trying to point this out fell on deaf ears, it was always Lewis fault somehow.
Now, races are a bit more straightforward, Button is being beaten by pure pace.

If he doesnt start finding extra speed in qualy, the points lead will stretch. Its worth noting that Lewis banker lap in q3, Turkey and Canada were not bested by Jenson's best q3 times which means Lewis has/had a bit of a margin of error at the moment in qualy and can afford a less than perfect final lap and still best his teammate. And we are told Lewis one lap pace is average

Thats the reason why Lewis never lost his confidence and his faith
He knew , it was not his fault, that he made no mistakes, and that he had the pace
He showed some of the best races I've ever have seen during a long time
He was able to deliver stunnig performances at races where he had to fight against unfortunate events and was able to even out the mistakes his team made, with extraordinary accomplishments.
He knew the time will come, when this pays off
Everybody with a little knowledge knew that this will happen sooner or later
As Lewis was 6 or 7 in WDC Horner said, they fear only Lewis ( & Alonso) as their strongest adversary
a few races later he beat them

Rinehart

Jun 17 2010, 14:23

QUOTE (peroa @ Jun 17 2010, 13:32)

What did really happen according to your objectivity?

In both cases, China and Canada, one teammate couldn't realistically overtake the other, whilst running 1,2. That's the nuts and bolts of it. In both cases the better driver on the day WON, they had it all sown up in the lead. Button managed his lead over Hamilton in China just as EFFECTIVELY as Hamilton managed his over Button in Canada. Hamilton is famed for his 1:18 lap in Canada which effectively told Button to quit trying, and Button put in a series of faster laps than Hamilton prior to his lock-up at the hairpin, which told Hamilton 'I have the pace' too.

I was just objecting to 'Hamilton had the pace in Canada, Button didn't in Canada' is factually wrong. See the final result for confirmation.

All this talk of 'oh bit "if" there was another lap... what sort of a point is that?! "IF" Lewis Hamilton was filled with hellium he'd float. So what.

Rinehart

Jun 17 2010, 14:25

QUOTE (bauss @ Jun 17 2010, 13:37)

not really, there'll still be twist and turns on the way....just saying its a much better position for Lewis fans than 3 races or so ago.

I remember reading this forum and guys talking bout how Lewis will have an advantage once we have 'normal' races were being ridiculed.

The diff. btw where we at now and wher we were 3 races ago is... then, Lewis was been beaten by weather elements, botched strategies, wheelnuts and so...trying to point this out fell on deaf ears, it was always Lewis fault somehow.
Now, races are a bit more straightforward, Button is being beaten by pure pace.

If he doesnt start finding extra speed in qualy, the points lead will stretch. Its worth noting that Lewis banker lap in q3, Turkey and Canada were not bested by Jenson's best q3 times which means Lewis has/had a bit of a margin of error at the moment in qualy and can afford a less than perfect final lap and still best his teammate. And we are told Lewis one lap pace is average

Fair enough. I still have an issue with the concept of a 'normal' race. Some people think a dry weekend = normal, but I think Canada was just as unique as Australia in terms of the weekend throwing up a few variables to contend with.

Rinehart

Jun 17 2010, 14:27

QUOTE (robefc @ Jun 17 2010, 13:41)

Well in the lewis v jenson thread it only applies to lewis and jenson

ah... you got me there!

mkay

Jun 17 2010, 14:44

QUOTE (Clatter @ Jun 17 2010, 07:52)

I've forgotten it.

Me too.

Seriously, I can't wait until Jenson has a unexpected DNF and all his fans will come here and cry about it. DNFs are part of the game but to blame a driver for it when it was a mechanical error is just nonsensical.

Some of you guys need a reality check.

pingu666

Jun 17 2010, 14:48

on bbc button favourtism, check the start of the f1 forum for canada, is pretty amusing

trogggy

Jun 17 2010, 15:12

QUOTE (mkay @ Jun 17 2010, 14:44)

Me too.

Seriously, I can't wait until Jenson has a unexpected DNF and all his fans will come here and cry about it. DNFs are part of the game but to blame a driver for it when it was a mechanical error is just nonsensical.

Some of you guys need a reality check.

Another?

Count up all the 'OMG it's a conspiracy' posts from Monaco. Do get back with the result.

Jeag

Jun 17 2010, 15:41

QUOTE (mkay @ Jun 17 2010, 15:44)

Seriously, I can't wait until Jenson has a unexpected DNF and all his fans will come here and cry about it.

Won't happen.

Lights

Jun 17 2010, 16:00

QUOTE (mkay @ Jun 17 2010, 16:44)

Seriously, I can't wait until Jenson has a unexpected DNF and all his fans will come here and cry about it.

Yeah, like when he had that bung left in his sidepod by a mechanic in Monaco.

Oh wait.

bauss

Jun 17 2010, 16:10

QUOTE (Lights @ Jun 17 2010, 17:00)

Yeah, like when he had that bung left in his sidepod by a mechanic in Monaco.

Oh wait.

I bet if that happened to Lewis, there will be someone with a twisted way to make it all his fault

.

hotstickyslick

Jun 17 2010, 16:13

Lewis vs Jenson, not Lewis fans vs Jenson fans.

Mc_Silver

Jun 17 2010, 16:13

QUOTE (hotstickyslick @ Jun 17 2010, 19:13)

Lewis vs Jenson, not Lewis fans vs Jenson fans.

Yorkie

Jun 17 2010, 16:30

QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jun 17 2010, 15:23)

In both cases, China and Canada, one teammate couldn't realistically overtake the other, whilst running 1,2. That's the nuts and bolts of it. In both cases the better driver on the day WON, they had it all sown up in the lead. Button managed his lead over Hamilton in China just as EFFECTIVELY as Hamilton managed his over Button in Canada. Hamilton is famed for his 1:18 lap in Canada which effectively told Button to quit trying, and Button put in a series of faster laps than Hamilton prior to his lock-up at the hairpin, which told Hamilton 'I have the pace' too.

I was just objecting to 'Hamilton had the pace in Canada, Button didn't in Canada' is factually wrong. See the final result for confirmation.

All this talk of 'oh bit "if" there was another lap... what sort of a point is that?! "IF" Lewis Hamilton was filled with hellium he'd float. So what.

You said Jenson was cruising

Bonaventura

Jun 17 2010, 16:30

QUOTE (Yorkie @ Jun 17 2010, 17:30)

You said Jenson was cruising

Perhaps at the start

Rinehart

Jun 17 2010, 16:45

QUOTE (Yorkie @ Jun 17 2010, 17:30)

You said Jenson was cruising

Nope. Post #10442.

mkay

Jun 17 2010, 17:31

QUOTE (Lights @ Jun 17 2010, 12:00)

Yeah, like when he had that bung left in his sidepod by a mechanic in Monaco.

Oh wait.

Oh, wait. He was already what, 8th or 10th. No big deal. If he was aiming for a podium and comfortably settled, as Lewis was, then this thread would have imploded.

You know it.

Bonaventura

Jun 17 2010, 17:41

QUOTE (mkay @ Jun 17 2010, 18:31)

Oh, wait. He was already what, 8th or 10th. No big deal. If he was aiming for a podium and comfortably settled, as Lewis was, then this thread would have imploded.

You know it.

11th behind both Force India

If you want a conspiration theory,

I'd say, it was Button himself who put it into his sidepod,
The early DNF safed him from a disgrace

Fatgadget

Jun 17 2010, 17:44

QUOTE (hotstickyslick @ Jun 17 2010, 17:13)

Lewis vs Jenson, not Lewis fans vs Jenson fans.

You are onto something there matey!

BillBald

Jun 17 2010, 17:46

QUOTE (mkay @ Jun 17 2010, 18:31)

Oh, wait. He was already what, 8th or 10th. No big deal. If he was aiming for a podium and comfortably settled, as Lewis was, then this thread would have imploded.

You know it.

A well-timed pitstop could have brought Jenson back into the game. It's happened a few times this season.

We simply don't know how many points he could have scored at Monaco.

mkay

Jun 17 2010, 17:50

QUOTE (BillBald @ Jun 17 2010, 13:46)

A well-timed pitstop could have brought Jenson back into the game. It's happened a few times this season.

We simply don't know how many points he could have scored at Monaco.

No. McLaren was simply not fast enough.

Rocket73

Jun 17 2010, 17:52

Well, anyway.... The question i have is/can jenson learn from lewis like lewis appears to have learnt from jenson. JB needs to be more aggressive in certain areas for sure like starts and he needs to be quicker in qualy no doubt...

Lewis fans will of course say that lewis always had tyre conservation skills but i am not sure he had/has them like JB does but he showed great tyre friendliness at canada. The again if you are naturally quick at a circuit then it easier to look after your tyres...

Bonaventura

Jun 17 2010, 17:53

QUOTE (BillBald @ Jun 17 2010, 18:46)

A well-timed pitstop could have brought Jenson back into the game. It's happened a few times this season.

We simply don't know how many points he could have scored at Monaco.

Perhaps he jumped one or 2 cars but not more

WitnessX

Jun 17 2010, 18:14

QUOTE (demoing @ Jun 17 2010, 13:17)

but not very likely as it was the friction (caused by the wheel nut not being fitted correctly, allowing the wheel to come lose) that caused the heat build up which of course is a function of how many times the wheel went round which is derived from how far it had travelled not an extra 0.5MHP average speed.
Incase you forget it was the Heat build up beyond normal levels that caused the stress factor that was why the rim failed.
But that is science for you no room for imagined ifs and but's just cold hard facts

There is no mention of cooling effect and efficiency, if a you drive a car over 1 km at 100 kph then measure the temperature,then drive it 200 kph over the distance then is the wheel temperature going to be the same? well not on my car- guess which ones going to be hotter..is their going to be a difference between 290kph and 300kph? (I dont know) but wait, doesn't jumping up and down over kerbs create stress?..and the Stress put on the wheel while cornering, don't you put more stress on the wheel while cornering harder? Theres all this accelerating,braking, cornering stuff isn't that going to affect the stress as well?

demoing

Jun 17 2010, 18:26

QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jun 17 2010, 13:10)

Your speculating just as much as I am. Heat build up in that area is also attributed to brake temperature and stress is also attributed to the actual load on the RIM, from the contact patch of the tyre. We're all ifs and butting here, but I reckon I am on solid footing that at half the speed (so twice the laps to achive the same distance) there would have been less chance of a failure.

no
I just read what McLaren said about why rather than speculate about it.
The silly thing about even trying to say `1/2 the speed to last twice the distance is that he would not have got further than 1/2 race distance would he as i stated we are only looking at fractions of seconds difference between front running drivers per lap not minutes.
How about just leaving the car in the garage and never break down.

WitnessX

Jun 17 2010, 18:29

QUOTE (BillBald @ Jun 17 2010, 19:46)

A well-timed pitstop could have brought Jenson back into the game. It's happened a few times this season.

We simply don't know how many points he could have scored at Monaco.

I choose (b)
We simply don't know how many points he could have scored at Monaco.

The problem of course is that we don't know what effect he would have had to the race. Its like one of those go back-in-time "butterfly effect" movies. It would have been a different race, perhaps instead of Rubens hitting the manhole cover it could have been someone else, or a spectacular crash at the end and Chandok gets the win. Pure speculation by anybody.