We have not much more to write about don't we?


Looking forward to Car launch!!

We must remember it is a last season with more powerful WRC cars. And the man has said more than once, he wanted a chance to drive WRC.

After beginning season they´ll change to these S2000 cars which may just not be that attempting any more..? Who knows..?

Why are they changing to these lower class cars? First you had 500 hp+ rally cars, then 300hp+ cars and now they go down again?

If it's cost, then just force teams to stick more closely to the road cars. An old mitsibitshi EVO or a Subari Imprezza with a few minor upgrades should be able to do some rally stages which shouldn't cost alot of money?

They are doing this (1.6 Turbo) to attract more teams/manufacturers to the sport. Now they have Ford and Citroen, only and this is not good for the show. Imagine F1 with Ferrari and Maclaren only, with all other teams using 'client cars'.

When the recession is over, the Asain carmakers will be back. They are quiting all motorsports except motorcycle racing. But they'll be back.

edit: I haven't been following WRC since Tommy Makinnen retired, but watched a few races now and then. And alot of Fords and Citroen indeed. But I'm sure they'll all return once this recession is over.

Considering that Japan was extremely hard hit (probably worse than even the U.S.), Toyota's recent billion dollar recall and so forth it'll probably be a long, long, long time before we see another works Japanese F1 team. Maybe 10 years or so? But, I do expect them to come back in a engine-provider sort of dealio in the next 3 or 4 years max.

They started to quit from WRC long before recession began.

They quit when the Fast & Furious fad ended.

This leads me slightly OT, but one suspects that since Force India has a deal with McLaren - NOT Mercedes - for a technical partnership, would FI maintain Merc power once McLaren lose it?

Can we please get back to the topic at hand, Red Bull 2010 - The F1 team/car.

Thanks

No, the origins of their leaving were when the FIA moved away from production-based vehicles to 'frankenstein-spec' World Rally Cars... circa 2001.

Subaru & Mitsubishi were interested when their competition cars had direct link to their top-spec road machines, in this case the STi & Evo. Once the move to non-production based vehicles began - to placate the european carmakers, frankly - the STi/22B, Escort, & Evo-based machines rapidly became uncompetitive. And that's a shame for all of us who loved and owned those homologated vehicles and enjoyed the direct link to the rally cars.

With a reasonable budget, a Group A engine could be slotted straight into your Evo 6 and with some bracing, braking, and suspension modifications you could build a pretty good replica of a WRC machine that could be immediately on the pace at any national rally in any county of the world.

Now it's all going full circle. Mark my words - these Super 2000 cars will NOT save rally from getting smaller and smaller, and less relevent. Only a move back to 4WD turbo cars based on production homologated vehicles, that manufacturors can then hang their marketing efforts on, will see rally return to it's glory days. The public want to see FAST cars with turbo blow off valves and anti-lag providing the aural sensations it always gave us.

Apologies for being off topic, but it needed answering.

Because there are usually less than 10 WRCar on the rallies and there are only Focuses and C4s. Not a proper entry list for a world championship.

Red Bull RB6: not revolutionary?



Source

I seem to remember Newey saying on tv last year that he wasn't into revolutionary designs and that he was far keener to evolve the RB5 into the RB6. The Ferrari seems to be working ok through sublety.

To me thats the right apporach. I was not expecting much change and besides why fix it if it aint broke?

I'd like to see it a little more slippery, it was a fast car on an empty track but slow in a straight line and not as chuckable as some of the others. Both Webber and Vettel looked better when circulating rather than racing, it seemed like a car that just wanted to be left alone in clean air ... then it flew.

Don't know if it belongs to this thread but Helmut Marko says that it's quite possible that Kimi will drive a Red Bull F1 car in 2011: http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news/20...g_10020808.html
"He has a contract with Red Bull. Let's see how that develops. We are a big Red Bull family. There are lot of things possible. We'll have to see how he succeeds in the WRC, how much it's up to his taste. Let's say it's not an impossible idea."

Would kimi want to step up against Vettel and get dominated?

So you are saying that Vettel would always start from PP?

[SARCASM]

Oh come on Kimi lost badly to Massa who lost badly to Fisichella who was replaced mid-season by Lavaggi who was born in the 50's and who ended up in f1rejects.com so Kimi totally sucks how could such a lame and slow driver ever be able to beat someone as superior and handsome as Vettel? No chance at all stick a fork in the guy he's done.

[/SARCASM]

Inproper speculation.

So the WDC winning Webber (which he will be) and Raikkonen will be the line-up and Vettel will be cast off to Ferrari, or they will send Webber and the number 1 to Ferrari!?

Good one RBR

Vettel is not in the same league as Kimi.

Kimi was quite happy to go against Lewis, but Mclaren said he cost too much. He was quite happy to go against Nico/Button/Schumacher but again cost too much.

Vettel is another driver to Kimi that's all. One of the reasons I like Kimi is because of this, he doesnt care for image/reputation, all he cares for is speed.

Oh yes he is

Oh no he isn't...yet at least. Might be soon though. I get good vibes from him.

I'd hope it's evolutionary, you don't win the last 3 races of the previous season and throw away what you have.

I will; never, ever understand the fascination with Kimi, he's fast at times but ... really ... done nothing for years. He looked poor winning the title in 07 FFS.

I just don't understand why everyone has to bang on about Raikkonen and derail Red Bull-related threads, he is not driving for them in 2010! I have a feeling that this is going to get particularly tiresome throughout the year.

Back to Red Bull...they were always saying last year that the RB6 would be more evolutionary and it makes sense, if it isn't broken, don't fix it etc. The only thing I'd be expect to be very different is the double diffuser, now Newey has had a chance to design the rear end from scratch instead of having to fit it into an existing package.

He seems like an enigma for many, becaus he didn't really seem interested of anything really and just drove fast. Sleeps on the bench and then someone just wakes him up to drive. He was like from another planet in F1.

What I'm keen to see is whether they've changed the rear suspension or if Newey's found a way to package a quality DDD around the pullrod rear suspension without sacrificing the benefits he saw in that direction last year. With RBR being by far the best non-DDD car at the start of last year, I think it's pretty clear that alternative suspension setup was the right direction to go if you assume the DDD would be illegal.

2011 will probably see a spate of pullrod rear ends with the DDD being banned, and RBR have the advantage of having run 2009 with that setup and knowing how to get good results from it. They might accept a slightly compromised DDD for 2010 in order to keep running it and have a 2 year head start for 2011... Risky move to make, but one that could pay off long term if they want to think that far ahead.

Yes it's clear the whole concept of a low rear end has gone out the window this season so expect a more standard suspension setup + a higher gearbox. With these stupid diffuser regulations for 2010 expect the entire back end of the car built around it IMO.

maybe they will switch to low sidepod in 2011 when the DDD is banned...then Redbull will be the fastest

Stupid me ... should've thought this through more. The 2010 (*cough*) STR is still running the pullrod, right? They can grab the data they need for 2011 (if they feel pullrod is the way to go with DDD being banned) by running it on the STR all year, while the RBR car runs whatever is best for 2010.

Therefore hoping to see Newey having pushed the 2010 diffuser to the limits...

Quiet before the storm?
Wouldn't be surprised if Newey comes out with a car that blows everyone into the weeds.
Look forward to it.

That's a lovely thought.

Have a feeling people are going to be disappointed that it's perhaps not as revolutionary as they think...

I have no doubt it will be a triple-keel super-mini yacht with a pullrod rear.

Wouldnt it be awesome if he had come up with some sort of quantum leap diffuser that almost creates a vortex around the car, sucking it to the ground along with small furry critters caught in the undertow. That would be a sight to see. Im hoping for that.

but the people who matter care that he doesn't care to the point he is not caring doing something else

Or from earlier era..? Before time of "teflon"

yep like when was the last time his car won WCC? ..... with upcoming rain at jerez I sense more of that mclaren car that never left factory and went straight to museum

cant stand newey hype. he is good but not a god and the new rbr wont dominate the field . for sure.

Thanks for the inside info!

better source than you and other kubica fanboys quoting polish press

Polish press = a far better source than conjecture on a car that no one has ever seen.

Conjecture from person who shows such pathetic level - even tabloid is far better source.

The problem is that the regulation changes are a) more numerous, and b) more specific than most are saying.

We all know about the refueling ban and the skinny front tires, and the changes that thus must be made to accommodate them. These changes are not only mechanical (longer wheelbase, longer car generally to sort the weight distribution, etc.), but there is certainly an aerodynamic interaction to consider, as well. For instance, the narrower tires will create more space between the wheels, which will certainly effect the aerodynamic balance and efficiency of the car.

Then there are changes that no one is talking about. The ban on wheel rim-heaters is being discussed by no one, yet it might be the most important change in the technical regulations, as it's going to make bringing tires into the optimal operating temperature range more difficult. You can have the design down well and be generating plenty of grip, but as the BGP 001 demonstrated last year, if you can't get the tires to work, you don't have a fast car.

Then there's the ban on wheel covers, which will reduce aerodynamic efficiency a lot.

There were some pretty major rethinks required for this year. It seems to me right now that McLaren is the only one who has dotted all of the "Is" and crossed all of the "Ts." I'd be surprised if Newey didn't, as well, as he is one who is usually on top of regulations changes. (2005 with the tire change ban comes to mind.)

Wishful thinking, my man.

Does anyone have more info on the 'launch'. Is the car just going to be rolled out onto the track or is there a ceremony trackside? Time?

8:30 CET.

"seen secret Red Bull photography. RB6 has a whale-tail engine cover like the McLaren, linked to the rear wing. Big diffuser with hole. " 23 minutes ago from @AdamHayNicholls

mike_griffin_f1 "Red Bull launch tomorrow, most extreme diffuser ever apparently, maybe the triple diffuser I reported a few weeks back, madness." #f1




a few relevant tweets