I'm not going to say im a huge McLaren fan but i hope the team do well next year

Yeah FOTA proposed it I think, not heard much since.

As to Jenson in a MP4-25: I congratulate him on the 3 year deal. As to competing with Lewis: maybe with his WDC crown he can relax and drive fast with confidence. I still think the MP4-25 will be faster than next year's Mercedes. McLaren made a wise move.

As to Mercedes loosing Jenson: What were they thinking? Sorry for the off topic.

As to the MP4-25:

Does this mean we get the #2 pit assignment? That helps on certain circuits.

Mercedes are dead to me, they are just an engine now. I want to see Lewis and Jense fight those Mercs as hard as they would fight Ferraris.

One thought from me on the car launches... There is no testing until February and so I would imagine all teams would be thinking of launching their cars closer to the end of January rather than in the middle. No point giving any ideas about the new car's design away a couple of weeks away from actually being able to test it on track. If there is a combined team launch then maybe it would be arranged for just before the first test.



Jenson joining McLaren won't have any effect on pit order afaik (so will have the third garage)

It's the same for me as an ex Brawn fan, i'm sorry but i can't support a German team

People can call me nationalistic or xenophobic or whatever, it's just the way i feel

The standings in the Constructors championship determine the pit lane order.

Looking forward to one day seeing "McLaren-McLaren" on those official result screens.

Who'd have thought a few years back (even last year) that would be a possibility? Was more worried about getting taken over by Merc.

I think It would just say McLaren or something. McLaren Racing maybe. Also maybe a sponsor before it, so like Vodaphone McLaren Racing.

I like this ^^

If anyone can make it happen, it's Ron.... I so hope he does this..

J

I wonder how much the loss of Merc will effect them, either in financial terms or technology?

Can they offset the loss with greater sponsorship?

Don't know if it's true, but:










Any new sponsors for 2010?

What if ING got back into F1 with mclaren providing the agreement with santander finishes? Is that possible?

So Mercedes' contribution to McLaren was only $55m?

I thought they were responsible for half (ie. $200m) of McLaren's operating budget.

$55m is a lot easier to replace (through additional sponsorships) than $200m.

I meant like when it shows the chassis maker and engine maker on the official screen things throughout quali and the race. Ferrari get Ferrari-Ferrari, etc.

I'd assume that yes, the team will be named something along those lines. Would have liked for that to happen next season really but I guess if Merc still have shares, they're entitled to be in the name.

As an aside, are Dennis and Ojjeh gonna buy all those shares on their own or what? I'm assuming that talk of McLaren getting a ton of money from the split was idle dreaming?

Yes, Merc broke the contract, they have entered into an agreement with another team, McLaren let them do it, seems they let them go lightly, I wonder why.

ron has a plan, and i think it involves very rich saudis, its hard to believe that it ended without a fuss, thats why i believe ron/mclaren have something up their sleeve cos normally they would have fought tooth and nail to hold onto something like that.

Mclaren got the right for engines till 2015. Possibly free of charge - not sure about that. In any case, it's likely mcLaren sold their approval rather than just giving it away.

Mercedes was just going to do it through indirect means otherwise anyway, though they no doubt prefer it this way and were willing to guarantee a pretty long-term engine supply for McLaren, to get to do rebrand Brawn rightaway.

Engines are free of charge till 2011.
From 2012 till 2015 they have to pay for them.

I don't want to burst Mclaren fans bubbles (actually I do), but I only see big holes appearing in McLaren's budget:
-Mclaren shareholders have to fund the buy-back of 40% of shares from Mercedes the next 2 years, reportedly 200 million euro.
-McLaren have lost 30 million euro per year on the operational budget fro Mercedes.
-Mobil 1 is rumored to leave as well (don't know how much that deal is worth).
-As of 2012, they have to pay for engines

Good thing they will spinoff the Automotive business from McLaren Group as that will take a number of years before they can start making profits.

was about to mention the same thing.

about mobil 1,ive read somewhere theyre not leaving.not sure.

about the engine thing,not sure how buying bmw's engine resources and starting their own fits in their plans as the moment considering the current economical state.

I'm a bit confused about Mercedes' contribution to the operational budget. Does that 30 million euro figure include engines?
Anyway, I'm not too worried, it's just a matter of looking for investors. Probably some rich saudi.
At least we have stability in terms of engine supplier.

There is no bubble to burst. I agree that McLaren would be in a spot of bother if the resource restriction wasn't in place. But seeing as it is the money lost through the departure of Mercedes should be more than offset - and that's assuming that McLaren don't find sponsors to fill at least some of that void (highly unlikely given their driver lineup for 2010).

I bad news for you:

- Petrobras has been rumored for awhile to replace Mobil 1. McLaren will have no trouble at all finding an oil/lubricant company to sponsor them. Mobil 1's sponsorship was minor anyway.
- Fund the buy-back will not be that hard. If in trouble, Ron Dennis can still find oil-rich backers like he already did or like Ferrari did
- Paying for engines is chump change; 5-15 million annually?! That's a small incremental cost.
- Spinning off McLaren Automotive will generate much needed capital that will be used to buy back the shares.

I think Ron Dennis is a savvy businessman and had his plan thought out. I don't think details like this have been overlooked.

Petrobras will not join McLaren, if anything, they will join Williams or Campos because of Rubens or Bruno. I would be VERY surprised if petrobras signed with mclaren.

Ironic, Max's enfoced cost savings (teams are now contractually obliged to reduce costs and team sizes will reduce bu 2012) could save McLaren's Bacon.

5 million (defined by the FIA)

Petrobras has stated that they are only interested in teaming up with an engine manufacturer for the benefit of doing research on lubricants. That's the reason why they pulled out of a deal with Honda last year, when Honda decided to withdraw. Mercedes already has a lubricants partner.

I hope so for them.


What!? How? That will be the first business that makes money before they even start with investing and before they even sold 1 car

He, McLaren is a great team, but no, they can't walk on water.

the key thing is they wont be losing much know-how by merc leaving.... money can be always found from rich investors and co. They also wont need bags and bags of it with the resource restriction thing coming into fore

I think Mclaren will generally be fine... the chassis guys just need to get the job done right and let Lewis n Button handled the rest on track.

IIRC McLaren get a substantial historic bonus from FOM, second only to Ferrari.

Dude, when you spinoff a division, you are essentially SELLING its shares. When you sell, you collect $$$. That's what McLaren will do in that case.

Petrobras or not, someone will replace Mobil 1. That's not even a concern at this point. Every team, good or bad, has some sort of deal/sponsorship with a big oil firm.

Can any McLaren or Lewis fans help me out, i'm looking for a picture of the number 1 on the nose of Lewis' McLaren

Obviously without Lewis in shot, i've been looking and i can't seem to find one

Much appreciated

I have a question or two...as someone who is normally un-able to follow the silly season, and thus car development and such:

How much technical data will Mclaren have shared with Mercedes?

How much technical data will Brawn/Merc have shared with Button?

I am guessing the design fundamentals will all ready be fixed, but I could see this a bit of a blow to Mclaren as far as technical secrets are concerned. Could we see bits of Mclaren tech popping up on the Merc car quite soon into the season?

Conversely could Button have been seen as a major tech knowledge resource? It might explain the real reason Brawn and Fry seem to have taken his departure so personally. I bet that is the real meaning of taking a "dim view" of Button starting any work early for Mclaren.

i dont think anyone here could answer those definitely


I think though, the Brawn takeover didnt happen from nowhere so Im pretty sure Mclaren must have thought about that while sharing any data with Merc within the last 3 months or so. Id expect Merc will have some inside knowledge about how things work generally at Mclaren, how the engine is fitted with the chassis and other similar stuff.


On the other hand, Brawn seem to have been blindsided by Buttons move so there is a real possibility he has had a close look at developments on next years car...Pat Frys comments about making sure Jenson has no contact with Mclaren also suggest that

Yes - It said on the news that even without Mercedes investment Vodafone McLaren would still have more funds than Team Red Bull.

There's a McLaren #1 pic in this article from James Allen.

That will do nicely, cheers

Time for a avi update

Pat would appreciate the insight of Jenson.

I think drivers can't transfer too much useful and concrete informations about cars in their heads. On digital media, it's a different matter.

Sorry, wrong section!

I repost this, which was posted by ATM_Andy. I'd like to ask; does the MTC wind tunnel have rolling-road? How big disadvantage would be the lack of rolling-road otherwise?


About the McLaren Technology Centre Wind Tunnel.

A modern bespoke wind tunnel is a necessity rather than a luxury in Formula 1. Such is the intensity of competition at motorsport's top level, that a 10 percent improvement in the complex and highly-sophisticated relationship between downforce and drag on the wings of a Formula 1 car will translate into a one-second improvement in lap time.

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has a fully enclosed wind tunnel at the McLaren Technology Centre, which has been built exclusively for the team's use and has been operational since 2001. The building is an acoustically sealed block with two walls linked to the structure by rubber mounts to minimise noise break-out and vibration.

The 145 metre tunnel, in the shape of a rectangular circuit is located within the building and the air is driven by a giant fan which is four metres in diameter and rotates at up to 600 rpm.

OPERATION
Once air is circulating in the tunnel, it goes through a whole series of conditioning processes to ensure that by the time it reaches the test chamber it is flowing steadily and uniformly, guaranteeing consistent and accurate results.

After first being slowed down, simply by being fed into a wider section of the tunnel, it then enters the stilling chamber, where a mesh screen takes out some of the turbulence.

Next, it is forced through a honeycomb to straighten it out after which two further screens remove any remaining turbulence.

From the stilling chamber it flows into the contraction chamber where it is compressed to increase the velocity and iron out any boundary layer effects before it enters the test cell in pristine condition.

AERODYNAMIC TESTING
As well as testing new development parts for the cars, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes also maps its aerodynamics in the tunnel.

Different wing angles and set-ups are needed for different race tracks and all have to be tested, with tables of aerodynamic data built up for the race team's use. They relate to a myriad of changeable areas - flap, angles, rear wing angles, cooling options, brake ducts, bodywork exits and so on.

The 50% scale model of the car which is used in the wind tunnel is made from carbon fibre and modelling block and is attached to a support strut, through which it is connected to a mechanism that can control its pitch and ride height to an accuracy of 0.01mm.

Creating an aerodynamic map to be used to develop the settings for each race allows the precise balance between drag and downforce to be determined according to which circuit the car is being prepared for.

FACTS AND FIGURES

Using 400 tonnes of steel between 8-10mm thick, the wind tunnel's construction was the equivalent of building a fairly large ship.

It is 145 metres long and six metres square at its widest point.

The air is driven round by a giant fan, four metres in diameter, which rotates at up to 600rpm.

The fan sucks in air from outside in such volume and at such a rate (15 cubic metres per second) that if the building were sealed, the walls would implode.

From the data you posted, I would imagine it does otherwise how can one explain or justify the 145m length?

Martin Whitmarsh:

Yes it does.

What's the feeling like internally for next years car Andy? What do the indicators point towards?

I don't know about you guys, but that piece on the wind tunnel has blown me away a bit, expecially the imploding walls part.

Thanks. I wasn't sure, because rolling-road is always mentioned as a super-duper feature in articles about wind tunnels.

Well unless you have a rolling road, you're not looking at the same scenario so any comparisons would be meaningless.

Oi Bishy, does my avatar look familiar

Why yes, yes it does, that looks like the front of Lewis' car for 2011 is it not??

The 50% scale model of the car which is used in the wind tunnel is made from carbon fibre and modelling block

Is rapid prototyping (stereolithography) being used for model making at McLaren?