http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86845

Bad bumps are gone!

So now we need good brakes and lots of downforce.

We have the brakes and hopefully we'll be closer in downforce.

And LH is awesome at this track.

I'm hopeful.

that does not mean the bumps are gone by any means, but they might be a bit smoother.

expecting big things from this race. I think we will have the second quickest car. (behind the all conquering mighty HRT, obv)

lewis on the podium at least.

Singapore preview thread is here.

If you're wanting to discuss how you think the car will perform against its rivals, post there. This thread is for technical developments on the MP4-25.

Gary Paffett said he's back in the simulator today. I assume that will be setup work?

Can't possibly turn around new parts and get them to Singapore in 3 days?

Probably for the 4 races afterwards or 2011...

probably setup work for the finalized new parts for Singapore

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86862

Bring it! I'm glad to hear the performance will be coming from maxing old parts as well as bringing new ones.

Very exciting.

Would be nice, let's hope they got it right!

love it

gonna reserve judgement until fp3

MP4-26 news
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86863

Here's hoping.

If McLaren qualify both in the top 5 there is good reason for optomism.

I still feel that in the heat of battle Red Bull make too many mistakes to be a champion winner this year unless they maintain a big technical advantage.

any idea what they mean with a big jump: 3-6 tenths???

btw: so no new big update anymore 'cause of 26 developments. This means indeed that this singapore update is crucial for the title hopes.

time for MP4-26 thread?

There was meant to be an update for the final race if we were still in the fight for the Championship. I wonder if they have abandoned it.

I bet it is quite a clever upgrade as well, because they clearly don't want to use it on the final race if they don't have to, perhaps to stop other teams seeing it. Despite the valuable testing it will give.

I hear you.
I'm always a little pessimistic and this part had me a little worried 'The regulations now in place over bodywork testing means it should be a level playing field,' he said. 'The advantage that was felt to be being gained by Red Bull and Ferrari is harder to exploit, if that was indeed what they were doing.' I have a concern that we will get to Singapore and witness the RBR cars with their endplates scrapping the tarmac and wonder how on earth the splitter is enabling the front wing to be run so low, as the sail into the distance with Ferrari not too far behind.

I'm also keen to see the updates. McLaren were said to have a big update in the works for Singapore, Phil Prew stated 'In addition, we have further upgrades here in Singapore; a new front wing and other devices that will look to improve downforce.' I wonder what those other devices are?

McLaren knows exactly what's going on with RBR and Ferrari, they are not stupid...
They may seem clueless to a lot of people but that is just a way to get the FIA and others to act. They will not say what's going on openly...
I bet that they were the team who made less modifications to the floor and front wings...

I see what you mean but for me I thought he was just avoiding anything that might have sounded like an accusation.

With what's been said about the stay, by Scarbs for example, I think the Red Bulls especially will have had to make big changes, the new rules/tests really attack the way they created their downforce. Without a trick stay they can't run that rake. And their weeny small diffuser was designed for a raked floor.

And Mac have a new front wing, we have to think it'll be a bit flexier...

So I'm quite optimistic .

I've the feeling, McLaren will be very competitive at Singapore
And RedBull not as fast as we fear.

+ 1

I'm expecting a 3 way fight.

hahaha yea, id be watching them RB wings closely, part of me fears theyd still be scraping the floor, disappearing into the distance with Horner cheesing on the pitwall with his smug naked man smile.

On the other hand, I think we just might surprise everyone

Positive vibes from Mr. Prew.

Two days to go, can't wait even though I think our car will be third fastest.

Whatever happens this weekend, I will long remember that this race last year marked the point where Macca erased the last of the 2.5 second deficit that they laboured under for much of 2009.... that, for me, is one the greatest achievements by any team over the course of a season.

But that would be cheating, wouldn't it?

Only if it doesnt pass the tests ;)

I know. I agree totally.

Its just undersquare repeatedly talks about how Red Bull and Ferrari were cheating all season long, even though they passed the testing requirements. But now that Mclaren is doing it, suddenly its ok.....

More flexing the rules...

No. I have explained this to you already...

No, Cheating would be something completely pathetic and cowardly, like getting your teammate to crash into a wall so you can win a race and never even saying sorry. But only a poor driver would rely on such a tactic.

I dont think the MP4-25 will have any flexable parts, the rest of the car is designed around a rigid wing thats in alignment with the rules.

I'd say you've tried to justify it to yourself somehow and then explained that twisted reasoning to me, but ok.

Sean. I think now the tests have been beefed up, anything that passes, should be respected as legal or incredibly clever.


Lets be real, the old tests created a circumstance where bypassing the genuine intent of the rule was.. easy.

But lets no go over this AGAIN.

There is the issue of the design downstream from the front wing, but remembering how MW and (I think) Tim Goss have flatly said 1mm of flex is worth 1pt of downforce (yes a simplification but still...) I wouldn't be surprised to see a flexi FW appear on the ~25.

It's clear now a linear rate of flex at 10mm per 50kg has been declared legal.

Plus there's the mass damping benefit isn't there? Spot on for a bumpy circuit with a lot of kerbs.

No that would be leveling the playing field.

As far as the wing goes I wonder if the new test has made any difference at all. If they had increased the load, but kept the 10mm allowance it would have made sense, but increasing both seems to defeat the object, It's the changes to planks and floor that are far more significant.

Clatter I agree, but lets just leave it - theres other threads for it anyhow.

Less than 2 days till FP1, excitement rising

No, some have to fall back within the rules as they have failed FIA's revised tests whereas others have a margin to play with as they are legal and comfortably within FIA's test and so will seek to tighten that up so that they are not giving such a competitive advanatage away. But full marks for trying it on.

I don't think it will be too big of a problem if our car is a few tenths off this weekend, Hammertime will be on a mission after his performance in Monza. I just hope our upgrades can get us within striking distance.

hmm sounds interesting?

src: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86862

I really wish they turn up on Friday with a KERS enabled car

that would be fun ha ha ha

Bernie would love that .

This car has no room for KERS. Those 'devices will look to improve downforce'.

I'm fairly optimistic though.

im not convinced tbh.. even if the update works well and we gain half a second on high downforce tracks, we're still lagging a good second behind red bull based on hungary.. i doubt the flexi wings is gonna make much difference

Everybody had to revise their cars(including Mclaren), so its impossible to know who had what margin to play with.

And just cuz Red Bull 'allegedly' failed a test(not even an official one, by the way) doesn't mean they were doing anything untoward before. They could have just cut it too fine when adapting to the new regs. You almost always want to design as close as possible to the limits of the rules after all.

And here endeth the off-topic chat. There are threads for discussing the legality (or otherwise) of the flexible wing.

Also, once again I remind posters that no thread is off limits to anyone. There are no 'fan threads' and posters can 'come in here' if they wish and should have their views respected as much as anyone elses.

If a poster breaks the rules, please use the report function rather than respond and and under no circumstances should you attack them.

They're trying to big up their 'upgrades' but I don't really see too much difference to be honest. They were around 1.5 seconds off in Hungary, we know why Red Bull were behind in Spa and especially Monza (woefully weak in a straight line) and that performance advantage won't just disappear as McLaren have claimed it would at earlier points in the season. They thought they were close in Turkey, and then Hungary happened. Given how much better RB showed at Monza it's small wonder they were smiling.

The tests? Red Bull have ran wings of varying elasticity in races this season, and I doubt they would run a Hungary construction at Spa or Monza. The floor test is a joke. I can't see any team that is flexing their floor enough to get their nose and wing to drop closer to the ground. That was just a shot in the dark, but if it gets McLaren to shut up and we can get back to racing then fair enough.

wish people would stop talking about hungary being the same as Singapore, check the corner of hungary and singapore, they are not the same. the gap between the RBR and Mclaren/Ferrari will not be the same here, its much more stop go i.e Monaco, and at monaco they werent that far ahead of any particular team i recall...

Singapore - http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/singapore_838/

Hungary - http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/hungary_835/

completely different corners.

So what happens if Mclaren turn up and we are say 2 tenths off RBR and about equal terms driver error either way off ferrari? id certainly be looking at the rest of the season in a different light. if our Downforce is substantial enough that we can run with them on this circuit that boads very well for us across the next few.

this weekend is going to be very tense for me, i honestly can't wait to see the 25 round here, despite what people say i thoroughly enjoy how this circuit looks and the way it is. Cars look fantastic, the backdrop is stunning. it may not be a Spa but its one race i somewhat look forward to across the season, its close enough to the end that we see how the run into the final races is going to pan out. Fantastic from a technical standpoint also.

Wishful thinking.

If you assume a constant rear tide height then the bib being raised by 10mm above the reference plane allows the centre of the front wing to be nearly 20mm closer to the ground as compared to zero flex. We will see how much of an impact the revised tests have had, but there will definitely be some.

Well, Gary Anderson believes it's wishful thinking too, just the other way round:

from the Monza Technical review on the frontpage:

"A lot of people were wondering whether Monza's characteristics would have hidden any performance implications that came from the tweaks teams had to make, but I am not sure.

If teams had been running flexible wings, then I think their benefit would have shown up at Monza as well as anywhere else. I find it hard to believe the teams were able to flex their floor enough for it to have been a benefit in getting the front wing lower to the ground, so I don't expect the new tests made much difference - other that it finally shut people up complaining about each other's cars."

YES, that would be so kewl, haha... phunk u red bull!