QUOTE (McLrnF1 @ Jul 25 2010, 10:16) 
Any updates on weather , did it rain after qualy yesterday.
No rain after qualy and none forecast.
Full Version: McLaren - MP4-25 Thread [merged]
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No rain after qualy and none forecast.
"We spotted some other things on their car [Red Bull] that we are looking at the moment," explained Whitmarsh. "They have worked on developing the blown diffuser but we mustn't get carried away with the idea that the blown diffuser is the answer to everything.
"I think once you are exploiting exhaust gases in that way then you can start to develop the car. They have other features on their car which are interesting too. We will be looking at them and we will be looking to see what we can do."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85528
"I think once you are exploiting exhaust gases in that way then you can start to develop the car. They have other features on their car which are interesting too. We will be looking at them and we will be looking to see what we can do."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85528
The good thing is that we have a good buffer of points to allow these upgrades to be fine tuned. Providing both jensen and lewis do not get stuck behind Massa is the turning point. Hopefully our setup should help us during the second half of the race.
QUOTE (F.M. @ Jul 25 2010, 11:52)
"We spotted some other things on their car [Red Bull] that we are looking at the moment," explained Whitmarsh. "They have worked on developing the blown diffuser but we mustn't get carried away with the idea that the blown diffuser is the answer to everything.
"I think once you are exploiting exhaust gases in that way then you can start to develop the car. They have other features on their car which are interesting too. We will be looking at them and we will be looking to see what we can do."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85528
"I think once you are exploiting exhaust gases in that way then you can start to develop the car. They have other features on their car which are interesting too. We will be looking at them and we will be looking to see what we can do."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85528
It's a very interesting read and his comments about the future development look very optimistic.
"I think we have probably got less than half of what is possible and I am sure that as the races go by we will get more from that," said Whitmarsh at Hockenheim.
I've never heard of anyone winning the WDC while being consistently ~.7 s off of pole
We'll do fine, there is going to be a few mishaps up front and we have great race pace.
QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Jul 25 2010, 09:39)
Good grief. Ferrari is proof that things can change. In turkey they were battling with the Renaults now they challenging Red Bull for pole, and even then it might be down to the nature of the track. As things stand nobody really knows anything. The real test will be Spa.
Some posters in here have serious mood swings.
Some posters in here have serious mood swings.
Why's that?
I hope no one called the McLaren a crap car after Monaco qualifying especially after what happened in Turkey the race afterwards...
The final sector is just really bad fundamentally for the car on low fuel, no amount of upgrades will change that.
The final sector is just really bad fundamentally for the car on low fuel, no amount of upgrades will change that.
QUOTE (moorsey @ Jul 25 2010, 11:26)
It's a very interesting read and his comments about the future development look very optimistic.
"I think we have probably got less than half of what is possible and I am sure that as the races go by we will get more from that," said Whitmarsh at Hockenheim.
"I think we have probably got less than half of what is possible and I am sure that as the races go by we will get more from that," said Whitmarsh at Hockenheim.
Lewis said on RTL, they thought there could be some problems with the new parts at this weekend
and I will take this and perhaps the next GP to learn to work/drive with it, and that the new parts work not yet with their full capacity
It possibly could take the next 1-2 GPs until it works 100%, but than...
Alonso battles with Vettel and they both end up crashing. Webber loses his front wing in contact, puncturing Massa. Lewis and Button passes them both and cruise home to another 1,2 victory? Am I right?
QUOTE (raiseyourfistfor @ Jul 25 2010, 12:57)
I've never heard of anyone winning the WDC while being consistently ~.7 s off of pole
McLaren isn't consistently ~.7 s off of the race pace.
I know some things can be done to the car in parc ferme, is downforce setup one of them?
Is it feasible that qualy is slightly sacrificed to optimise race potential? Macca know they can't yet touch RB in Q3 and Ferrari have made that step up to their level. So, forego the maximum of 1 better placing in qualy and plan to be much more competitve on race day?
Is it feasible that qualy is slightly sacrificed to optimise race potential? Macca know they can't yet touch RB in Q3 and Ferrari have made that step up to their level. So, forego the maximum of 1 better placing in qualy and plan to be much more competitve on race day?
QUOTE (raiseyourfistfor @ Jul 25 2010, 12:57)
I've never heard of anyone winning the WDC while being consistently ~.7 s off of pole
Rosberg in 1982, Lauda in 1984, Prost in 1985? It was usually the Renault and almost always turbo cars who took poles in 1982, and with a good margin in most cases. In 1984 and 1985, the McLaren-TAG Porsche was often unbeatable in the race but while the drivers took a number of poles, there were definitely outqualified by some competitors (particularly Piquet in 1984 and Senna in 1985 come to mind) on average.
QUOTE (Jamiednm @ Jul 25 2010, 12:26)
I know some things can be done to the car in parc ferme, is downforce setup one of them?
Is it feasible that qualy is slightly sacrificed to optimise race potential? Macca know they can't yet touch RB in Q3 and Ferrari have made that step up to their level. So, forego the maximum of 1 better placing in qualy and plan to be much more competitve on race day?
Is it feasible that qualy is slightly sacrificed to optimise race potential? Macca know they can't yet touch RB in Q3 and Ferrari have made that step up to their level. So, forego the maximum of 1 better placing in qualy and plan to be much more competitve on race day?
no set-up changes can be made in parc ferme, broken parts and safety related items only if memory serves.
QUOTE (Jamiednm @ Jul 25 2010, 19:26)
I know some things can be done to the car in parc ferme, is downforce setup one of them?
Is it feasible that qualy is slightly sacrificed to optimise race potential? Macca know they can't yet touch RB in Q3 and Ferrari have made that step up to their level. So, forego the maximum of 1 better placing in qualy and plan to be much more competitve on race day?
Is it feasible that qualy is slightly sacrificed to optimise race potential? Macca know they can't yet touch RB in Q3 and Ferrari have made that step up to their level. So, forego the maximum of 1 better placing in qualy and plan to be much more competitve on race day?
Off the top of my head, tyre pressures and minor front-wing tweaks/turns, I think. I'm sure I'm missing some other stuff, but the rest is probably off-limits.
They have always had a stronger racepace than quali pace, and this time its no different. The gap does seem huge, but having a fuelled car and rubbered up track (later in the race) will make a difference... hopefully.
QUOTE (Wouter @ Jul 25 2010, 12:30)
Rosberg in 1982, Lauda in 1984, Prost in 1985? It was usually the Renault and almost always turbo cars who took poles in 1982, and with a good margin in most cases. In 1984 and 1985, the McLaren-TAG Porsche was often unbeatable in the race but while the drivers took a number of poles, there were definitely outqualified by some competitors (particularly Piquet in 1984 and Senna in 1985 come to mind) on average.
Exactly. The current MP4-25 shares alot of the strengthes and weaknesses of the MP4-2 of the mid-eighties and neither were bad cars in any sense of the word.
Hakkinen looking as cool as ever on the grid 
nice hair do haha
nice hair do haha
QUOTE (robefc @ Jul 25 2010, 12:12)
Why's that?
A much better test of the aerodynamics.
A few dark clouds overhead!
Inteesting to hear comments about the "potentially flexing front wing" creating ground effects on the Red-Bull and being under investigation ........ alledgedly???????
QUOTE (ashnathan @ Jul 25 2010, 19:44)
Hakkinen looking as cool as ever on the grid nice hair do haha
nice hair do hahaThe man is here?
Did Marty grab a chat with him?
what ??
I think we may get some sprinkles this race i hope so! the red bull front wing on vettels car in silverstone (new one) looked like it was flexing downwards at the endplates due to those weights being in behind the central pillars of the front wing
^ was that the "irregularity" with the RBR and Ferrari front wings?
Lewis slowly falling back.
Lewis slowly falling back.
Hoping for some showers lewis is starting to struggle over 3 seconds behind vettel did he make a mistake?
I knew Vettel will turn on Alonso at the first corner. He turn on people a lot. I just hoped that they will hit each other but it didn't happen.
I think we need massa to win this race for us believe it or not, best case scenario is rain to come (looking more unlikely now the sun is out)
If this result stands it would be great for Macca.
Come on Massa!
Not liking this race performance, I expected a bit more to be honest.
But as long as we get solid points and no reliability issues I'll be reasonably happy with it, the EBD will take a while to get used to and develop and our championship position can probably afford a 1 or 2 race hit - as long as it means the car is competitive for the business end of the season....
Not liking this race performance, I expected a bit more to be honest.
But as long as we get solid points and no reliability issues I'll be reasonably happy with it, the EBD will take a while to get used to and develop and our championship position can probably afford a 1 or 2 race hit - as long as it means the car is competitive for the business end of the season....
Lots of mileage on the new rear end, hopefully they will use all of this race data to sort some things out cos its fair to say we got smashed this race.
Anyone watching live timing?
our drivers are sensationally close! every lap, a tenth or less first Lewis quicker then Button, then Lewis. Its amazing. You know when the car is being pushed when both drivers are so matched.
our drivers are sensationally close! every lap, a tenth or less first Lewis quicker then Button, then Lewis. Its amazing. You know when the car is being pushed when both drivers are so matched.
So do we want a penalty to be imposed on Ferrari after this? If Alonso and Massa were to be disqualified, would that be a good thing or a bad thing? I think possibly good.
On the other hand we don't want Vettle getting more points and if we need to resort to team orders then we could do with Ferrari getting away with it.
On the other hand we don't want Vettle getting more points and if we need to resort to team orders then we could do with Ferrari getting away with it.
I think if there is a penalty Ferrari will have the constructors points taken but the drivers would keep their places i believe.
The two guys are doin well, looking at live timing..
But the car just is not there for them.
I hope we dial it in better next week. Not a bad result given the situation
But the car just is not there for them.
I hope we dial it in better next week. Not a bad result given the situation
I'll take 4th and 5th, who knows we might get a podium later ;)
Maybe not the quickest, but at least not as disgraceful as Ferrari.
Well the fabled race pace wasn't there today unfortunately, but fourth and fifth is good, under the proviso that McLaren can understand the EBD and improve it and the car rapidly. The time for talking about great developement pace is over, its time now for action.
the boys in Woking have TONS of work to do. Now that Massa is getting results, we are in huge huge trouble
I'm expecting an even more painful race next week
I'm expecting an even more painful race next week
4th & 5th with the other contenders in the wrong order, lead increased 
.
As damage limitation goes, this is the finest kind.
.As damage limitation goes, this is the finest kind.
QUOTE (TheArmchairCritic @ Jul 25 2010, 14:34)
I'll take 4th and 5th, who knows we might get a podium later ;)
Better a honest 4 +5 than Ferraris poor "Comedia dell' arte"
QUOTE (Jay @ Jul 25 2010, 14:28)
The two guys are doin well, looking at live timing..
But the car just is not there for them.
I hope we dial it in better next week. Not a bad result given the situation
But the car just is not there for them.
I hope we dial it in better next week. Not a bad result given the situation
I think McLaren generally screwed up with their low downforce configuration. They should have used the advantage the f-duct gives them to add more downforce, rather than get all giddy about top speeds. The McLarens were on average 0.5s off in the stadium section.
Race pace was no better than quali pace.
One leading engineer suggested that the benefits of having a wing operate in such a manner to seal off the air around it could be worth up to three tenths of a second per lap. 
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85532
I suspect the gap will be reduced considerably if these wings are found illegal and now that we have a race's worth of data with the EBD.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85532
I suspect the gap will be reduced considerably if these wings are found illegal and now that we have a race's worth of data with the EBD.
Good Result , best we could hope for with our race pace.
Now time to put down hammer and start churning upgrades that really deliver.
Now time to put down hammer and start churning upgrades that really deliver.
Damage limitation...
at the other teams imploding around Macca!
at the other teams imploding around Macca!
QUOTE (Obi Offiah @ Jul 25 2010, 14:38)
Well the fabled race pace wasn't there today unfortunately, but fourth and fifth is good, under the proviso that McLaren can understand the EBD and improve it and the car rapidly. The time for talking about great developement pace is over, its time now for action.
My thoughts exactly. Some Ferrari-Red Bull proxy wars could be exactly what needed to limit both teams points scoring while the Macca developments catch up. At least we have a publically united driver line up, still lead both championships and know we hav more to come. It was going too smoothly for a while. It is a long hard season and every campionship is a rollercoaster.
4th and 5th, not bad as far as results go, but the lack of pace compared to RB & the reds needs to be addressed. Hungary is basically sector 3 of Hockenheim for the whole track, so this is probably the most we can expect until the EBD is developed and optimised after the summer break. Definitely still not a bad position to be in. Lewis again increased his lead over JB & Webber, lost a few points to Vettel & Alonso but it's still looking good, even on a "bad" day like this.
Lewis has increased WDC lead
McLaren has increased WCC lead.
Time for some mega work from the boys at MTC
McLaren has increased WCC lead.
Time for some mega work from the boys at MTC
best we could have done....once again, our drivers maximize the points available...
Now to develop the car well
Now to develop the car well
QUOTE (Jeag @ Jul 25 2010, 15:42)
Race pace was no better than quali pace.
For the first time this year really. Worrying.
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