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Full Version: McLaren - MP4-25 Thread [merged]

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Callisto

Nov 4 2009, 00:34

QUOTE (Obi Offiah @ Nov 3 2009, 15:59)

The MP4-24 was definately the prettiest car this season, particularly under the Singapore lights. Lets hope the MP4-25 is even more beautiful.

stunning under the singapore lights

QUOTE (Obi Offiah @ Nov 3 2009, 17:05)

This will be interesting to see, but I think the regulations are pretty restrictive in this area. It was mentioned on the MP4-24 thread, but to highlight again, the fact that McLaren used KERS this season and packaged the batteries in the sidepod as well as having to bolt the KERS motor to the V8 unit, they may be better prepared to cope with the larger fuel tanks in 2010. Also the design of the MP4-24 sidepods (with their lack of undercuts) may lend themselves better to the installation of a larger fuel cell Teams may opt for a purely longer wheelbase, a fatter car or a compromise between the two.

i was wondering about this too,i guess the MP4-24 was pretty tightly packed under the hood(sidepod,kers space).will the lack of kers give more room for,and ballast/fuel tank(180kgs)?

Owen

Nov 4 2009, 07:19

QUOTE (hunnylander @ Nov 3 2009, 22:31)

Yes, it'll be a nice red 5.

Ah yes, the heady days of Mansell mania.

mkay

Nov 4 2009, 07:25

I read some article about Ferrari's 2010 car and it left me speechless.

Some points:

- They are building their car from scratch! Is McLaren doing the same or building from the MP4-24 chassis? It would be illogical for McLaren to use the MP4-24 flawed architecture (as they still haven't found what did not work aero-wise).
- They have some upcoming tricks concerning electronics and mechanics - They'll be the only ones using those.
- They will have the best simulator in the business installed in their factory - Wasn't McLaren's the best?
- They will have a lot of elements inspired from Brawn's (Flat/Wide nose, Low Nose, Undercut Sidepods) and Red Bull's (Crash Structure, Nose Cone, tight and low rear-end)

Lastly, apparently, the F61 is only 5% more efficient than the F60 (and the F61 has a fully-integrated floor/DDD, while the F60 did not have that). I brought that up because I don't quite buy Whitmarsh's "25%" improvement, unless the MP4-24 was truly sh*t (aerodynamically-speaking) relative to the F60, which is not necessarily the case (as was seen at Spa for instance; both cars were equally atrocious through Sector 2).

Anyway, I know it's not the Ferrari thread, but I thought I'd bring this up here so that we see what the competitor does and also give us an idea of what McLaren is doing at the moment.

The link to the full article:
http://ferrarif1forum.com/2009/10/29/exclu...10-f61-preview/

Owen

Nov 4 2009, 07:29

Clearly Ferrari are throwing everything including the kitchen sink at developing their car. But then they would, they are under a great deal of pressure to perform.
I'm sure they will be a force to be reckoned with next year. But McLaren are 'leaving no stone unturned' in the pursuit of more speed either. So it's game on.

bogi

Nov 4 2009, 07:41

That Ferrari preview is only logical thinking, nothing to do with leaked informations. Of course Brawn/RB will be guidelines for developing.

Duck of Death

Nov 4 2009, 07:50

QUOTE (mkay @ Nov 4 2009, 07:25)

....

QUOTE

- They are building their car from scratch! Is McLaren doing the same or building from the MP4-24 chassis? It would be illogical for McLaren to use the MP4-24 flawed architecture (as they still haven't found what did not work aero-wise).

How do you know they haven't found what was wrong? At the end of the year the MP4-24 was quite consistantly in the top 3 cars. In Japan much of the high speed stuff seemed be looking a lot better also.

QUOTE

- They have some upcoming tricks concerning electronics and mechanics - They'll be the only ones using those.

What tricks? the FIA Ecu will stop any TC and limits all sorts of stuff.

QUOTE

- They will have the best simulator in the business installed in their factory - Wasn't McLaren's the best?

The McLaren one is already a few years old I'm not suppriosed the - newer - Ferrari one is better, I'd be shocked if it wasn't.

QUOTE

- They will have a lot of elements inspired from Brawn's (Flat/Wide nose, Low Nose, Undercut Sidepods) and Red Bull's (Crash Structure, Nose Cone, tight and low rear-end)

I'm sure most teams will be copying the Brawn and Redbull.

QUOTE

Lastly, apparently, the F61 is only 5% more efficient than the F60 (and the F61 has a fully-integrated floor/DDD, while the F60 did not have that). I brought that up because I don't quite buy Whitmarsh's "25%" improvement, unless the MP4-24 was truly sh*t (aerodynamically-speaking) relative to the F60, which is not necessarily the case (as was seen at Spa for instance; both cars were equally atrocious through Sector 2).

Where is the "25%" quote? All I have read is Whitmarsh saying the MP4-25 is allready faster than the MP4-24. You are misquoteing.

pRy

Nov 4 2009, 09:25

Something I wondered on the train home yesterday. Is it possible that McLaren were testing something new in the braking department on Hamiltons car this weekend?

Owen

Nov 4 2009, 09:27

QUOTE (pRy @ Nov 4 2009, 09:25)

Something I wondered on the train home yesterday. Is it possible that McLaren were testing something new in the braking department on Hamiltons car this weekend?

Would they risk a near certain race win to test it though? That doesn't add up for me.

MaxFan1

Nov 4 2009, 09:28

Like I said, it looks like both Ferrari and McLaren are building their car from scratch. It's a huge gamble if they get rid of KERS. This year they built the car around KERS, but what they should do next year is to build a car without KERS and then see how they can fit a KERS into it without compromising the car.

femi

Nov 4 2009, 09:45

QUOTE (mkay @ Nov 4 2009, 08:25)

Don't you think we are confusing aero efficiency with DF?

pRy

Nov 4 2009, 09:45

QUOTE (Owen @ Nov 4 2009, 09:27)

Would they risk a near certain race win to test it though? That doesn't add up for me.

Well maybe they didn't go into the race expecting a near certain win but the new brake system worked very well and they found themselves with a huge advantage.

It just seems odd to me that their brakes would suddenly go like that and no other team seemed to suffer the same fate.

hunnylander

Nov 4 2009, 09:54

QUOTE (pRy @ Nov 4 2009, 11:45)

It wasn't a brake system failure, it was a rouge brake pad at the right rear wheel, which started to drop performance because of rapid wear, after 3-4 laps.

Brake pads are from Akebono.

femi

Nov 4 2009, 09:57

QUOTE (pRy @ Nov 4 2009, 10:45)

I would be surprised if Mclaren and some of the teams didn't use the last race or part of it for testing purposes towards the development of 2010 challengers.
I found it strange that Heikki's KERS stopped working at the begining of his second stint.

MaxFan1

Nov 4 2009, 10:00

edit@ wrong tread

bogi

Nov 4 2009, 13:33

After years of searching, finally;

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1963/xp...gw0egthjig8.jpg

meddo

Nov 4 2009, 14:15

Nice paint scheme

Pingu Pi

Nov 4 2009, 14:31

never get over how amazing that car is. some people didnt click with the winglets etc era, but to me i just see a work of aerodynamical art. what a beauty, especially with the black wings.

maccaFTW

Nov 4 2009, 18:34

I know this isn't directly related to the MP4-25, but here's some technical info that's just been put out there.

* The BGP 002 from Brawn will have a RB5-like high nose.
* The currently-titled F661 from Ferrari will have a BGP 001-like low nose.

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_c...&Itemid=219

So, two teams are looking at two different concepts for the nose. It'll be interesting to see where Oatley and the boys are going with this.

grunge

Nov 4 2009, 18:44

QUOTE (maccaFTW @ Nov 4 2009, 22:34)

very interesting if true..i posted this before as well that the rumours around the end of the season said that ferrari were going for an RB styled nose because it allowed more flexibility/space for modification.such a nose was also tested way at the german grandprix.
the new design in the f661 thread however shows a very brawnish nose.

Enkei

Nov 4 2009, 19:06

QUOTE (bogi @ Nov 4 2009, 14:33)

After years of searching, finally;

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1963/xp...gw0egthjig8.jpg

That sir, is pure sex.

raiseyourfistfor

Nov 4 2009, 19:47

if 2006 to 2008 is anything to go by our car will have relatively the same nose as this year

Callisto

Nov 4 2009, 19:49

QUOTE (bogi @ Nov 4 2009, 13:33)

After years of searching, finally;

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1963/xp...gw0egthjig8.jpg

hunnylander

Nov 4 2009, 19:51

QUOTE (maccaFTW @ Nov 4 2009, 21:34)

High nose is the way to go. I very much doubt that Ferrari info. It was rumoured the F61 will have Brawn/RBR-like nose. I translate it to a wide and high nose, not exactly to a current Brawn nose.

High nose:
more airflow to help the diffuser (and the rear wing)

Wide nose:
more downforce on it

Regarding McLaren, they chose the nose well, it was high and a bit wide.

Modern Lover

Nov 4 2009, 20:08

QUOTE (bogi @ Nov 4 2009, 23:33)

After years of searching, finally;

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1963/xp...gw0egthjig8.jpg

It has been reposted three times in 4 posts, but I dont care. This livery is just so beautiful, and the car is absolutely stunning

Thank you for posting this picture

mkay

Nov 4 2009, 20:20

QUOTE (maccaFTW @ Nov 4 2009, 13:34)

I've talked about the F661 above. I've got a link too.

ItisI

Nov 4 2009, 20:55

QUOTE (bogi @ Nov 4 2009, 14:33)

After years of searching, finally;

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1963/xp...gw0egthjig8.jpg

That's just ...

FFS, what a beauty, what a sexy ...

ATM_Andy

Nov 4 2009, 21:05

How to build a FWEP.

Anonymous

Nov 4 2009, 21:12

QUOTE (bogi @ Nov 4 2009, 15:33)

After years of searching, finally;

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1963/xp...gw0egthjig8.jpg

This + slick tyres = pure secks

maccaFTW

Nov 4 2009, 21:28

QUOTE (mkay @ Nov 4 2009, 15:20)

I've talked about the F661 above. I've got a link too.

I haven't found anything from you in this thread.

Owen

Nov 4 2009, 21:52

QUOTE (ATM_Andy @ Nov 4 2009, 21:05)

How to build a FWEP.

That was interesting. Cheers. Puts adult telly to shame.

Mika Mika

Nov 4 2009, 22:25

QUOTE (ATM_Andy @ Nov 4 2009, 21:05)

How to build a FWEP.

Is that solidworks?

ATM_Andy

Nov 4 2009, 22:29

QUOTE (Mika Mika @ Nov 4 2009, 22:25)

Is that solidworks?

No, CATIA.

mkay

Nov 4 2009, 22:52

QUOTE (maccaFTW @ Nov 4 2009, 16:28)

I haven't found anything from you in this thread.

I hope you're kidding... Check the top of the sixth page!

BiH

Nov 4 2009, 23:04

QUOTE (ATM_Andy @ Nov 4 2009, 17:05)

How to build a FWEP.

UK only

thanks anyways.

FormerF1Driver

Nov 5 2009, 08:11

Hamilton looks like hes sitting to high in the car. Look at the red bulls for comparison, they are sunk in. And Hamilton is very short. Design flaw??

Any pictures of Kova?

hunnylander

Nov 5 2009, 08:14

QUOTE (FormerF1Driver @ Nov 5 2009, 11:11)

Hamilton looks like hes sitting to high in the car. Look at the red bulls for comparison, they are sunk in. And Hamilton is very short. Design flaw??

Any pictures of Kova?

There was a picture about Kova, someone deleted it right now, and deleted my post, which explains the legality to insert these pictures.

mel

Nov 5 2009, 08:15

Guys,

I've removed posts about the mod decision, I'll get back to you on that. You know not to discuss it it a thread. While I was editing, you were posting, so some pictures got snipped. Please feel free to repost on-topic in this thread. My apologies if I just cut you.

-mel

Arion

Nov 5 2009, 08:16

We can still post links of photos right?

mel

Nov 5 2009, 08:17

QUOTE (mel @ Nov 5 2009, 08:15)

re copyright: If you don't have licence to post a picture, put a link, that is safer.

Gilles4Ever

Nov 5 2009, 08:17

QUOTE (Arion @ Nov 5 2009, 10:16)

We can still post links of photos right?

yes you can

Gilles4Ever

Nov 5 2009, 08:19

QUOTE (hunnylander @ Nov 5 2009, 10:14)

There was a picture about Kova, someone deleted it right now, and deleted my post, which explains the legality to insert these pictures.

from your deleted post

QUOTE (hunnylander @ Nov 5 2009, 10:00)

I use to include photos from Daylife.com which is a legal service We do have established partnerships with AP, AFP, Reuters and Getty, and have full permission to use their material.

As you quoted, they have permission to use the pictures you do not!

Youichi

Nov 5 2009, 08:37

So who are McLaren testing with their 3 days of Rookie testing ? does any one know ?

femi

Nov 5 2009, 08:38

Anyway, it seems Williams are holding up Brawns party...

here

Clatter

Nov 5 2009, 08:54

QUOTE (Youichi @ Nov 5 2009, 08:37)

So who are McLaren testing with their 3 days of Rookie testing ? does any one know ?

Paffet?

If PDLR is off to pastures new then he could be the 3rd driver next year.

The Ragged Edge

Nov 5 2009, 08:59

QUOTE (Clatter @ Nov 5 2009, 08:54)

Paffet?

If PDLR is off to pastures new then he could be the 3rd driver next year.

Would Paffet decline a full season of DTM, just to be a Mclaren 3rd driver, not even compensated with the opportunity of doing thousands of kilometres in testing? At his age and stage of career, he must realise a full time F1 drive will never come.

Clatter

Nov 5 2009, 09:05

QUOTE (The Ragged Edge @ Nov 5 2009, 08:59)

Don't know. He is still on the books as test driver along with PDLR, but have no idea what they actually do these days. I have a feeling the subject of testing might come up during the long winter months and some changes made there.

femi

Nov 5 2009, 09:06

QUOTE (Clatter @ Nov 5 2009, 09:54)

Paffet?

If PDLR is off to pastures new then he could be the 3rd driver next year.

I don't think its Paffet - he is not a F1 rookie.

Clatter

Nov 5 2009, 09:09

QUOTE (femi @ Nov 5 2009, 09:06)

I don't think its Paffet - he is not a F1 rookie.

Yes he is, he hasn't done a single F1 race.

hsvone

Nov 5 2009, 09:44

QUOTE (Clatter @ Nov 5 2009, 09:09)

Yes he is, he hasn't done a single F1 race.

Yeah what's so special about this guy? I hear him mentioned every year. He can't be that good if he's never raced for McLaren despite being their test driver for donkey's years.

Give Ant a drive!

Burai

Nov 5 2009, 10:00

QUOTE (hsvone @ Nov 5 2009, 09:44)

Yeah what's so special about this guy? I hear him mentioned every year. He can't be that good if he's never raced for McLaren despite being their test driver for donkey's years.

Give Ant a drive!

Paffett is a difficult one to pin down.

He left the DTM originally as champion to sign on as McLaren tester with the intention of going to Jean Alesi's McLaren B-team to get F1 experience but when that got shut down and Hamilton proved such a star in GP2 he was left in limbo.

To be honest, I think his chance is gone now. The other Merc teams don't really need him as they don't work as McLaren feeders. But he's doing alright for himself really - He could do a lot worse than McLaren third driver and a works Mercedes DTM drive. Plus all it takes is for Lewis or Kimi to get injured and he's suddenly back in the game.

He's certainly one of those characters, like an Ollie Gavin or a Vincenzo Sospiri, where they do really well on the way up and get so close they can taste it, but we're left to wonder what might have been.

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