The AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board > McLaren

jjcale

Mar 24 2010, 17:45

QUOTE (Owen @ Mar 24 2010, 16:34)

that's commitment to the cause.

... dont know what it says about F1 but I prefer the practise sessions to the racing. I enjoy watching the cars (even at practice) more than I appreciate the racing.

A green street circuit in FP1 will sort the men from the boys both carwise and driverwise. I'd put money on LH topping the timesheet.

Don_Humpador

Mar 24 2010, 17:52

QUOTE (jjcale @ Mar 24 2010, 17:45)

... dont know what it says about F1 but I prefer the practise sessions to the racing. I enjoy watching the cars (even at practice) more than I appreciate the racing.

A green street circuit in FP1 will sort the men from the boys both carwise and driverwise. I'd put money on LH topping the timesheet.

I actually fear Practices will become a bit duller this year because they're lugging the huge fuel tanks around, essentially just testing.

Hopefully, though, some lessons will have been learnt from the last race about how aggressive drivers can be on the tyres.

Hoping that Hamilton does well this weekend, needs to keep some momentum during the early season.

OwenC93

Mar 24 2010, 18:20

I think McLaren will definitely do some quali runs after what happened at Bahrain.

RoutariEnjinu

Mar 24 2010, 18:27

Yeah I agree. If anything it seems the emphasis is entirely on Qualifying if it is so hard to overtake.

mags88

Mar 24 2010, 18:29

QUOTE (jjcale @ Mar 24 2010, 15:46)

Youbetcha!

I'll be up to watch the MP4-25 in all its glory too!!!

Guizotia

Mar 24 2010, 19:10

QUOTE (nawz @ Mar 24 2010, 16:54)

I love watching practice sessions while im revising lol. The sounds gets me going

"Revising" - is that what they call it now?

nawz

Mar 24 2010, 19:11

QUOTE (Guizotia @ Mar 24 2010, 19:10)

"Revising" - is that what they call it now?

Why has Mclarens qualifying been poor? Was it just the one-off wrong setup?

TheArmchairCritic

Mar 24 2010, 19:22

QUOTE (nawz @ Mar 24 2010, 19:11)

Why has Mclarens qualifying been poor? Was it just the one-off wrong setup?

Perhaps, we'll find out in Quali.

CPR

Mar 24 2010, 19:34

QUOTE (nawz @ Mar 24 2010, 19:11)

Why has Mclarens qualifying been poor? Was it just the one-off wrong setup?

Possibly not just that. Autosport speculated in last week's edition that Red Bull and Ferrari had a little trick to help "adjust" the ride height. If McLaren's setup explains half the gap, then that trick might explain the other half... or something along those lines. If McLaren don't have that ride height trick for Melbourne, then unless the circuit really suits the car I don't see them having much of a chance of getting pole.

If there's a biggish gap between the MP4-25 and the Mercs, maybe they should qualify on the harder tire...?

mclarensmps

Mar 24 2010, 19:40

QUOTE (kerum gp @ Mar 24 2010, 06:54)

...and the mood swing going up

What's the latest graph looking like?

QUOTE (De Jokke @ Mar 24 2010, 10:09)

some people think mcl will be running the launch car engine cover again.
Personnaly I don't think so: the bahrain spec was giving them better results. I don't think it was because of the heat only.

Your thoughts?

I think, at least in terms of engine cover, the Bahrain config was different moreso because of cooling.

I'll obviously be proven wrong, now, when they show up with the same kit /facepalm.

OwenC93

Mar 24 2010, 20:44

I heard the cooling outlets provided downforce last year. But the launch cover seems to feed the diffuser better. Certainly less drag with the launch cover.

Squeaky1

Mar 24 2010, 21:00

QUOTE (GoonerLewis @ Mar 24 2010, 15:41)

Is anyone in England actually watching both Practice sessions?

I want to see how the car goes in practice but i won't be able to watch both the 1:30 am and 5:30 am sessions

I am in work on Friday, so unfortunately I will not be able to stay up and watch P1. I do intend to watch P2 though. Perhaps if it was closer to the end of the season and McLaren were in a title chase I would make the effort to watch both.

beckenlima

Mar 24 2010, 21:17

QUOTE (CPR @ Mar 24 2010, 16:34)

Possibly not just that. Autosport speculated in last week's edition that Red Bull and Ferrari had a little trick to help "adjust" the ride height. If McLaren's setup explains half the gap, then that trick might explain the other half... or something along those lines. If McLaren don't have that ride height trick for Melbourne, then unless the circuit really suits the car I don't see them having much of a chance of getting pole.

If there's a biggish gap between the MP4-25 and the Mercs, maybe they should qualify on the harder tire...?

What trick is that?

Enkei

Mar 24 2010, 21:19

QUOTE (beckenlima @ Mar 24 2010, 22:17)

What trick is that?

Adjust ride height at pitstops?

CPR

Mar 24 2010, 21:28

QUOTE (beckenlima @ Mar 24 2010, 21:17)

What trick is that?

See page 17 of last week's Autosport print magazine.

beckenlima

Mar 24 2010, 21:42

SCARBS:

Unusually for a teams media image, this shot shows the front inerter installation on the F10. What we can see here is the car without its access panels, revealing how the team mount the inerter between the front suspension rockers. An inerter is a simple device akin the Renault Mass Damper, pioneered initially by McLaren. It consists of a weight that spins on a threaded rod as the suspension moves, in order to balance out the ‘bounce’ of the tyres. This creates a more consistent load at the contact patch and resultingly better grip from the tyres.

We can also the linkage in the steering column in the larger access panel.

While on the edge of the monocoque is a round adjuster for the torsion springs. This has been reported as a ‘ride height adjuster’, but a similar pair of adjusters has been on the top of the Ferrari moncooque for years. I suspect these are simply the same preload adjusters, re-sited to suit the ”V” nose.

undersquare

Mar 24 2010, 21:50

QUOTE (beckenlima @ Mar 24 2010, 21:42)

SCARBS:

Unusually for a teams media image, this shot shows the front inerter installation on the F10. What we can see here is the car without its access panels, revealing how the team mount the inerter between the front suspension rockers. An inerter is a simple device akin the Renault Mass Damper, pioneered initially by McLaren. It consists of a weight that spins on a threaded rod as the suspension moves, in order to balance out the ‘bounce’ of the tyres. This creates a more consistent load at the contact patch and resultingly better grip from the tyres.

We can also the linkage in the steering column in the larger access panel.

While on the edge of the monocoque is a round adjuster for the torsion springs. This has been reported as a ‘ride height adjuster’, but a similar pair of adjusters has been on the top of the Ferrari moncooque for years. I suspect these are simply the same preload adjusters, re-sited to suit the ”V” nose.

Well that would explain why none of us saw any adjustments being made in the Bahrain pitstops. Brundle was quite specific about them being on the way though, and worth 0.2s.

femi

Mar 25 2010, 06:19

QUOTE (beckenlima @ Mar 24 2010, 22:42)

SCARBS:

Unusually for a teams media image, this shot shows the front inerter installation on the F10. What we can see here is the car without its access panels, revealing how the team mount the inerter between the front suspension rockers. An inerter is a simple device akin the Renault Mass Damper, pioneered initially by McLaren. It consists of a weight that spins on a threaded rod as the suspension moves, in order to balance out the ‘bounce’ of the tyres. This creates a more consistent load at the contact patch and resultingly better grip from the tyres.

We can also the linkage in the steering column in the larger access panel.

While on the edge of the monocoque is a round adjuster for the torsion springs. This has been reported as a ‘ride height adjuster’, but a similar pair of adjusters has been on the top of the Ferrari moncooque for years. I suspect these are simply the same preload adjusters, re-sited to suit the ”V” nose.

Would that spinning device not be qualified as movable aero?

Lights

Mar 25 2010, 07:36

If Sauber runs the f-duct, we might see what it's actually worth on the MP4-25.

Brandz07

Mar 25 2010, 07:58

QUOTE (GoonerLewis @ Mar 24 2010, 15:41)

Is anyone in England actually watching both Practice sessions?

I want to see how the car goes in practice but i won't be able to watch both the 1:30 am and 5:30 am sessions

i'm sure they reply the sessions all day on the red button so you can watch at a sensible time

blacksheep79

Mar 25 2010, 09:01

mclaren to test new mirrors?!

Mirrors

maverick69

Mar 25 2010, 09:02

QUOTE (femi @ Mar 25 2010, 06:19)

Would that spinning device not be qualified as movable aero?

I understand that it's not because it's a suspension component. Renault's mass damper, for example, was mounted in isolation.

undersquare

Mar 25 2010, 09:11

QUOTE (blacksheep79 @ Mar 25 2010, 09:01)

mclaren to test new mirrors?!

Mirrors

Ah. Mac did seem to be one of the last to be using the draggy inboard mirrors. And they didn't help Lewis to spot exactly where Massa was as he went past him in Bahrain, he said in the forum he hadn't realised how much space he had. So may as well go for the outboard option.

hunnylander

Mar 25 2010, 09:15

QUOTE (blacksheep79 @ Mar 25 2010, 12:01)

mclaren to test new mirrors?!

Mirrors

Oh, the influence of John Iley...

De Jokke

Mar 25 2010, 09:21

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=48026

mc working on qualy pace

femi

Mar 25 2010, 09:32

QUOTE (De Jokke @ Mar 25 2010, 10:21)

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=48026

mc working on qualy pace

The BBC commentator (Bundle) was right on the money after qualifying in Bahrain - he said the Mclaren were not getting enough heat into the tyres quickly enough - very much the problem they had with the MP4-21. IIRC, that was fixed after the first fly-away races. They went too light to conserver the tyres for the race and they may have done the same on the car that raced in Bahrain. Hopefully, they can get that more quickly sorted since they can draw from the experience of the past.

De Jokke

Mar 25 2010, 09:38

QUOTE (femi @ Mar 25 2010, 10:32)

The BBC commentator (Bundle) was right on the money after qualifying in Bahrain - he said the Mclaren were not getting enough heat into the tyres quickly enough - very much the problem they had with the MP4-21. IIRC, that was fixed after the first fly-away races. They went too light to conserver the tyres for the race and they may have done the same on the car that raced in Bahrain. Hopefully, they can get that more quickly sorted since they can draw from the experience of the past.

so it does look like 2006..

Mclaren4ever

Mar 25 2010, 10:10

AMuS say that the team not only had to change the diffusor but also the front wing.
The upper element of the front wing had a radius that was not within the rules.
Only a minor issue I think.

Buttoneer

Mar 25 2010, 10:18

Rookie error. Surely that is something a well run team picks up at manufacturing?

Owen

Mar 25 2010, 10:21

QUOTE (De Jokke @ Mar 25 2010, 09:38)

so it does look like 2006..

2006? the year of having the third best car...

Hope not.

femi

Mar 25 2010, 10:37

QUOTE (Mclaren4ever @ Mar 25 2010, 11:10)

AMuS say that the team not only had to change the diffusor but also the front wing.
The upper element of the front wing had a radius that was not within the rules.
Only a minor issue I think.

That is not included in the statements released by the FIA. I don't buy it at all.

femi

Mar 25 2010, 10:39

QUOTE (Owen @ Mar 25 2010, 11:21)

2006? the year of having the third best car...

Hope not.

The problem that year was the Merc engine. De Jokke was refering to the tyre heating issue they had at the begining of that year.
btw, that was the fastest car on the grid that year and Mclaren would have won both championships that year if not for the frequently detonating Merc power house behind the car.

Sisplatin

Mar 25 2010, 10:41

QUOTE (HarryReams @ Mar 25 2010, 10:02)

I understand that it's not because it's a suspension component. Renault's mass damper, for example, was mounted in isolation.

inside the nose cone

Atreiu

Mar 25 2010, 10:42

Are you confusing 2006 with 2005?

Owen

Mar 25 2010, 10:44

QUOTE (femi @ Mar 25 2010, 10:39)

The problem that year was the Merc engine. De Jokke was refering to the tyre heating issue they had at the begining of that year.
btw, that was the fastest car on the grid that year and Mclaren would have won both championships that year if not for the frequently detonating Merc power house behind the car.

Yeh, remember Monaco that year.

Yorkie

Mar 25 2010, 10:52

QUOTE (De Jokke @ Mar 25 2010, 09:38)

so it does look like 2006..

QUOTE (Owen @ Mar 25 2010, 10:21)

2006? the year of having the third best car...

Hope not.

QUOTE (femi @ Mar 25 2010, 10:39)

The problem that year was the Merc engine. De Jokke was refering to the tyre heating issue they had at the begining of that year.
btw, that was the fastest car on the grid that year and Mclaren would have won both championships that year if not for the frequently detonating Merc power house behind the car.

QUOTE (Atreiu @ Mar 25 2010, 10:42)

Are you confusing 2006 with 2005?

Yes i believe they are

De Jokke

Mar 25 2010, 10:55

QUOTE (femi @ Mar 25 2010, 11:39)

The problem that year was the Merc engine. De Jokke was refering to the tyre heating issue they had at the begining of that year.
btw, that was the fastest car on the grid that year and Mclaren would have won both championships that year if not for the frequently detonating Merc power house behind the car.

They would have won the first race if raikkonen didn't have to start from the back due to his qwf crash.

Owen

Mar 25 2010, 11:00

QUOTE (Yorkie @ Mar 25 2010, 10:52)

Yes i believe they are

05 was the year of the rocket ship car. Except the rocket kept going on fire. But that car was damn quick. When it worked.

bond

Mar 25 2010, 11:04

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/148479.jpg
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/148521.jpg
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/148542.jpg
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/148544.jpg
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/148549.jpg

Duck of Death

Mar 25 2010, 11:22

QUOTE (Mclaren4ever @ Mar 25 2010, 10:10)

AMuS say that the team not only had to change the diffusor but also the front wing.
The upper element of the front wing had a radius that was not within the rules.
Only a minor issue I think.

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/13247356

I think its more that McLaren have simply changed their wing. The upper cascades were the same as last year, and As far as I know the FW rules are the same.

AMuS are maybe trying to whack the nest

CrashTestDummy

Mar 25 2010, 11:35

Phil Prew:

QUOTE

...
Q. In terms of the diffuser, how much of a difference does the change make per lap?

PP: Really, the changes that we've had to put in for the diffuser are very minor, and we don't anticipate it to be any change, to be honest, in terms of the downforce that it produces. It was a clarification of the regulations which hasn't affected us at all, to be honest.

...

Q. Regarding Lewis's comments about the Red Bull being ridiculously fast - do you agree with what he said?

PP: They had a strong performance in Bahrain, for sure, but I wouldn't call it ridiculous. Lewis himself has had some ridiculous qualifying performances at certain circuits. I remember in 2008 in Canada he was 0.7s quicker than everyone else in qualifying. That was only a one-off event.
Certainly Sebastian Vettel hooked it up in qualifying and did a great job, but remember that Lewis did outqualify Mark Webber. So it's too early to say just yet about outright performance, and I think by the time we come back into Europe we'll have a better idea.

RoutariEnjinu

Mar 25 2010, 11:35

QUOTE (bond @ Mar 25 2010, 13:04)

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/148479.jpg

I'd love to see Ron Dennis' OCD kick in if he saw that

Owen

Mar 25 2010, 11:37

QUOTE (RoutariEnjinu @ Mar 25 2010, 11:35)

I'd love to see Ron Dennis' OCD kick in if he saw that

Has that been trimmed with a hack saw?

Owen

Mar 25 2010, 11:41

Excerpt from interview with Phil Prew:

QUOTE

Q. It seems that Sauber, Force India and Red Bull have developed something similar to the f-duct system. How does McLaren feel about other teams copying something that you have devoted quite a lot of time innovating?

PP: Now we've led the way with the innovation, I think it is a system that is possible to copy and reasonably straightforward. The press have covered it very thoroughly, and it is a system that they can well adopt. Hopefully they don't see quite as much laptime performance we believe we get from it. It was inevitable, but hopefully we'll be able to continue developing it and keep exploiting it one step ahead of the rest.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82361

femi

Mar 25 2010, 12:01

QUOTE (Yorkie @ Mar 25 2010, 11:52)

Yes i believe they are

Thanks for the correction guys.

femi

Mar 25 2010, 12:02

QUOTE (Owen @ Mar 25 2010, 12:41)

Excerpt from interview with Phil Prew:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82361

That didn't sound bullish from the team as earlier reported in the press.

Desdirodeabike

Mar 25 2010, 12:15

QUOTE (bond @ Mar 25 2010, 12:04)

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/148479.jpg
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/148521.jpg
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/148542.jpg
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/148544.jpg
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/148549.jpg

That last link. That must be Heikki in the 08 car?

maverick69

Mar 25 2010, 12:20

"Really, the changes that we've had to put in for the diffuser are very minor, and we don't anticipate it to be any change, to be honest, in terms of the downforce that it produces. It was a clarification of the regulations which hasn't affected us at all, to be honest."

"I think as the drivers and teams get more used to racing in these conditions it will get more exciting, to be honest."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82361

Looks like Spygate and Liegate has given poor old Phil a complex!

hunnylander

Mar 25 2010, 12:21

QUOTE (Owen @ Mar 25 2010, 13:37)

Has that been trimmed with a hack saw?

It looked always this way or similarly. The two flaps were tied at the end.

Lights

Mar 25 2010, 12:22

QUOTE (Desdirodeabike @ Mar 25 2010, 13:15)

That last link. That must be Heikki in the 08 car?

If that picture is from this year, it has to be Whincup.