I don't think that comparison holds as much for this season. 2010 being more an evolution , I actually would say that the best cars of 2009 have a better chance of being up-front in 2010. So Ferrari would be worse off as compared with RB, Merc GP and McLaren.

eww....his walk is so gay!

German press New 2010 Ferrari lacks aerodynamic efficiency http://tinyurl.com/y95v9mp

"Ferrari’s new single-seater, predicted to be named the F2010, and set to compete in the 2010 Formula 1 championship will officially debut later this month on January 28 in Maranello.

However, some are suspecting that it’s quest for the championship along with Ferrari drivers Felipe Massa and already two time world champion Fernado Alonso may be over before they begin.

The car has yet to see pavement, but an article in German publication Motorsport Aktuell written by none other than regular and respected contributor to the Italian magazine ‘Autosprint’; Alberto Antonini has claimed that the new Ferrari design lacks aerodynamic efficiency and has come short of achieving set design goals. The author writes that a B-spec version of the car is in the works at Maranello set to be introduced in June, near round eight of the championship.

MSa article claiming the 2010 Ferrari has fallen short of expectations
http://ferrarif1forum.com/wp-content/uploa...msa-article.jpg
Snapshot of the German article

The news is hard to digest given that Ferrari has started work on the 2010 challenger mid 2009 season and is expected to be a force to be reckoned with.

If the rumors are true, (and at this point this cannot be attributed to anything else but rumors) and Ferrari do plan to introduce a “b” version in June, then the season might as well be written off as it’s unlikely Ferrari would be able to compete with it’s rivals if the “a” version is not up to par.

Ferrari’s standard procedure for the past few years has been to introduce a few significant upgrades to the release version of the car by the start of the European season a few round in. This news brings up some serious questions especially given that all official word from Mranello has been positive."

exactly
there is no rule change to the magnitude of what happened from 2008 to 2009

And moreover starting early, will only work if you are some sort of genius or someone who knows everything about the BENDING rules.

And even moreover Ferrari stopped development on F60 coz it was Cr@p and was no use upgrading it

Ok thats it Setphano is going to get the Bye bye

Additionally, I never understood why people automatically assume that beginning early means being at the sharp end of the grid. That is a huge assumption - not everyone is Ross Brawn or Adrian Newey. McLaren kept developing throught out the season for a reason , because the better your 2009 contender gets the higher probability that 2010 will be better still.

Quite honestly I think Ferrari lack technical leadership as well as overall leadership , a void left after Jean Todt and Ross Brawn left.

So to assume that Ferrari will be better off because they started early is over-simplifying what is clearly a more complex situation. (Renault is a case in point - I don't recall exactly which year they gave up mid-season, but neither was 2008 nor 2009 a stellar season as it should have been if that logic is to hold)

Oh no, Massa to test first! Favoritism! They intend to make Alonso no.2! Fouls! Foul!

I just wonder how reliable that German source reporting that the Ferrari should lack aerodynamic efficiency is? I have never heard of that source before, and I have no idea who that Italian journalist is either. However, it would be a nightmare if it was true

Well for one, I'm guessing you're a bit anti-Ferrari since you're clapping at the idea of them not being competitive in 2009, so I'm right away going to dismiss your reasoning as mere wishful thinking.

Two, starting early CAN work because their 2009 car was not all that horrible like some make it out to be. It was consistently in the top 10 pretty much all year long, and was fighting at the front here and there. The new car can still take advantage of what they've learned, while still designing a new one that isn't based around KERS and a single-level diffuser.

And that last point is the main reason they stopped developing the F60. They were always going to have to design a new car that didn't include KERS, and there was little point in putting more effort into their old car when the most they could have hoped for was 3rd in the WCC.

I'm not saying that Ferrari are *definitely* going to be competitive in 2010, just that there's no real reason they couldn't as long as they've got a solid design.

I wouldn't read to much of the german source. I'm only gonna believe what I see on Bahrain that qualifying ;).

Forzza Ferrari

It's an italian source.

Not necessarily. The fact that the rules barely changed means that SF will have had time to observe the ideas that RB, MM, BM were using in their car development during the season before deciding which way to go. It does work both ways. Granted SF started with the less competitive car (which they chose not to develop in-season) but I suspect SF will have a car comparable to the big three teams for 2010. They won't have the fastest car, but it will be fast. People tend to forget that, other than the 2009 season, the Ferrari car has been pretty consistently competitive in recent years (post 2005). The real key for 2010 is going to be who can develop and update the car quickly during the season.

Let's wait until the first race starts. I hope Ferrari will deliver a decent car.

I agree - I think what it will really come down to is how fast the other three top contenders move the goal post. In that race Ferrari start with a disadvantage in my opinion. This is just my view that Ferrari's overall leadership leaves a lot to be desired - so though there is technical competence I suspect if the guidance/direction provided is top notch. In that comparison it seems that Merc GP (Brawn). Red Bull (Adrian Newey) have the upper hand.

All in all, it is a complex puzzle and though Ferrari are very good , I don't know if they are great in those departments as compared with their competition.

So I agree, Ferrari might build a top 3-4 car, but my money is not on them to leap-frog the competition.

but this contradicts the recent chat with domenicali which states in the interview. so even if Alberto Antonini had inside sources in ferrari team it would be make his statement hard to believe since they havent even fully compared the new car to last years car.

Q. The car progress
A. The car is growing up well; next week we will make a comparison in the wind tunnel with last year’s car and we will understand more. Anyway, we need to wait until we test together with the others!

Noooo!!!
But, you've got it wrong! They intend to make Alonso no.1 en Massa no.2. They let Massa test the first days when the teething problems will arise, and Alonso when those have been solved so he can drive laps without problems.

The last decade has taught me to never underestimate Ferrari. The last time they came out with a real pig was 1993. From there on, even their worse cars were podium contenders and allowed for some briliant races and wins everynow and then.

It's not that hard to figure out: they need a comparison between this and last year's car. FA just can't provide that. And they need to check FM on the real thing.

Welcome to the dark years of Ferrari pre schumi. I don't think Ferrari would win anything in the next 10years. Then we would see how many REAL Tifosi's they have left

if the car is 0.6 s behind then alonso makes that loss. I think thats the reason the signed him

It's funny how some people tend to beleive the first BS they hear or read. testing hasn't even started yet, and some are already digging the grave..... No, Ferrari had put every effort possible in the 281, and the aero department isn't exactly the kindergarten of it's field in Maranello. It will be a decent car. How decent I couldn't know, but a dog?? No.

IIRC last year similar news emerged that mclaren gonna be dog. And it turned out to be true.

IIRC on the contrary. Until the first tests. THEN it PROVED to be a dog.

Well on another forum someone called scarbs said

"I respect Antonini, if the translation is what he is actually reporting, then there’s reason to be worried."

Isn't there a technical writer from Autosport called Scarbs.

That certainly adds some credibility to it....

If this somehow happens to be true, there are going to be consequences. But I would still rather wait until the first runs.

HAHAHA. Nice one. I expect that from him too

Bodywork aero will not be that important in the future. But it might still be important this year and maybe even next year. But if it's crucical (when testing against others begins) then all in all in will be judged by the jaw-dropping by Fernando when instant success won't occur. Felipe will take in on the chin as the team player he is.

You would think that F1 is and should be an exact science but it's not. But you can always plan for the future and be ahead in that department.

I think the ban on refueling will make a major change. Newey is obviously brilliant, but his insistance on tight packaging will, IMHO, hamper the full fuel car. Obviously, he did pretty bloody well with the Williams FW14 with no refueling, but that was after a season of unreliability and before the days of CFD which Newey doesn't like. The FW14 also had all sorts of gadgets that are illegal these days.

Brawn/Merc and Red Bull were the fastest cars in the current aero spec refueling guise, but having extra resource to concentrate on heavy cars whilst copying the aero stuff from Merc/Brawn, and the pullrod suspension from Red Bull will give Ferrari the edge.

IMHO, McLaren and Ferrari will be the pacesetters in 2010, with McLaren winning the WCC, and Fernando winning the WDC. McLaren will win the WCC because they have 2 awsome drivers, whilst Fernando will win the WDC because Jenson and Lewis will be stealing points from each other, whilst he quietly wins the WDC.

If Massa manages 4th, (behind Alonso, Lewis and Jenson), he will have done a good job.

Half way down.
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic...0&start=120

At the moment it is hard to give it too much credence, need someone else to pick it up and whats the source.

tbh, I have not that much faith in Aldo Costa but we´ll see.

About Antonini: Well, usually also Autosprint has really good internal informations from Ferrari
(remember the "hole in the nose", they knew about it in January(!) 08 and it was on the car later in April/May)

If this is true, I just can't wait to see Stefano's face when he is fired.

A lot of negativity here

Untill i see proof the car is crap i'll wait untill the first tests

Chill guys

Craig Scarborough. Very credible.

It only makes sense if they've only just put it in the windtunnel, and made that discovery, which seems ridiculously late. Though Stefano said they're only just about to compare it in the tunnel with the 09 car so who knows?

Actually Stefano also enjoys playing basketball and he loves to fly. He's quite a good pilot.

I find it hard to believe especially since they haven't finished wind tunnel testing that is going on here at the end of the week and last night Stefano said as much.

I wouldn't put too much belief on the accuracy of crystal ball predictions of car competitiveness before the yhave hit the track. I remember last year Autosport predicting BMW as championship favourites as their car was honed perfectly for KERS. In the end they couldn't even get KERS to work properly and dropped it.

Good point

+1

Ferrari may be with worse data than they expected, but how would they, Ferrari (and journos and we), know if the current desing is, or is not, better than the rest of the field?

Please, wait at least first test day.

Autosprint is as reliable as BILD or The Sun are

Bild is actually pretty reliable in F1 matters.

Stefano seems pretty bullish about their chances and I see it as a good sign. But of course the car has to hit the track before any serious judgement could be made. But if it's true that they're planning a B-spec car, that may be just as what Red Bull did for Silverstone in 2009, just an excessive improvement on a car that has a decent A-package.

Red Bull planned a B-spec once the diffuser regs were set in stone. They realized they had to create a significantly revised design to take advantage of the DDD.

Its a bit different than if a team, who has full working knowledge of the rules, has a B-car planned before winter testing has even begun. Not unless they've found something 'super-awesome' in the last few weeks which they need to take the time to build around.

The way I see it, the most likely situations with this rumor are:

a) Its BS and Ferrari are just fine.

b) Its true and its a complete disaster.

I'm still leaning towards 'a' right now, because it still seems strange to me that they'd have a B-car planned thats gonna take them 6 months to develop when they've been working on the A-car for as long as they have.

+1. Last year, Renault thought they had a great car at the beginning of testing. Championship winning material. That car turned out to be one of the worst.

So let's hold our horses. We won't know anything significant until they start testing and comparing to other cars, and then that information isn't set on stone, either. Last year, Renault was consistently one of the better cars in the first tests, and it turned out to be a dog. We'll know for sure when the first race arrives.

What do you guys think of this white strip + italian flag livery?

The assumption is work on the A-car has progressed well. It is also possible that after spending all the time on the A-spec car, Ferrari has discovered that they already need a B-spec car. What is certain is (if b-spec rumors are true) talking about b-spec at this time in not a +ve indication atall. So my take is , if b-spec rumors are true, then Ferrari are at-least in some trouble.

i think its cool the car looks plane anyways atm. That barcode is better then the ugly one now.

Love it. I liked your black one too

I'm not too worried yet. Alonso will have a better car than he had for the last couple years, so he should be competitive. Whether he has the advantage of the best car in the field only time will tell, but he'll make the best of it.

Testing, as always, will be accompanied by a lot of hand wringing, but after the first race we'll have a better idea.

Righteous.