The guy beats his teammates, the likes of Massa, Kimi, Villeneuve and Kubica and has yet to find a ride in 2010?

Where should he go? The second McLaren seat should be his, but what are the chances?

nascar?

Nick has heaps of options, he'll be fine.

Nick seems to be way underrated... and/or his pr-guys (i know, it's a girl for quite some time ) and management did something wrong in the past.

Heidfeld is slightly underrated, I would say.


`The guy beats his teammates, the likes of Massa, Kimi, Villeneuve and Kubica and has yet to find a ride in 2010?`

He beat Kimi and Massa at their rookie year and not by much. He has been very close with kubica overall, but when BMW built their best car, he was outshined by the Polishman.

Anyway, I do think he deserves a good seat for next year. Steady good driver.

#1 at Toyota seems to be his most likely destination. That's not a step downward.

It is for Toyota.

Why the constant support for Heidfeld, who now holds just about every wrong record there is to be held in F1 - amazes me.

I don't believe in luck but if you did, and the Japanese do, why would you hire a recognised 'unlucky' driver.

That line is a bit old and a bit thin don't you think?

Why?

I'm pretty sure Heidfeld and Toyota would make a good match, but so far Toyota made a lot of disastrous driver choices, so I wonder if they want Heidfeld, considering he's quite good Also, if Glock stays I wonder if they want to have another German. I think they want German-Japanese, so either Kobayashi/Nakajima.

Chances are good that he will find a team for 2010. The most likely option should be the BMW successor team (Qadbak/Sauber) if it is on the grid in 2010. Renault would also be possible, but somehow having a different team mate would be more interesting from my perspective. He is certainly negotiating with Toyota (although I still don't know why they do not want to keep Glock/Trulli - at least one of them). If Sauber and Toyota are out for 2010, then finding a drive will be difficult. He doesn't want to race for one of the new teams.

Complaining about Trulli and giving Nakajima his race seat would be toyotesque decision indeed. (I can't rate Kobayashi, but would be surprised if he is better than Trulli.)

Heidfeld is over-rated. It's all well and good to out-score your team-mate, but not so much when you haven't got a single win to your name in ten years.

I don't think he is underrated. Actually many people love to overrate him these days. Yes, he never had a championship winning car, but some of his equipment was good enough for an odd win a couple of times. Most of his podium finishes was down to luck, safety cars and attrition. On merit he rarely appears in the top of the field. He never led a race for more than just a couple of laps, when the guys in front of him pitted earlier.

I'm not wondering he hasn't been picked by a topteam yet. His results in a McLaren wouldn't be any better than Heikki's. They are pretty much similar kind of talents.

I gather they don't want two German's in what's effectively a German team.

The current Japanese owner plus an Italian and a German driver is the perfect WWII Axis Powers combination, by the way.

How many wins NHs teammates have from the time when tehy were paired with NH? Prost, Sauber, Jordan, Williams, BMW? I believe ONE is the correct answer. So it can be said that the cars he's been driving has not been constantly winning on the NH's teammates hands either.

I was holding my breath until a Webbo fan would reel this one out. Classy.

It's very difficult to rate Heidfeld. He's always there or thereabouts, but never above expectation.

Apparently Nick Heidfeld is frustrated with his modest 'image'

http://www.newsonf1.co.uk/2009/news/Oct/ar...est_image_.html

And as you see, they loosing "the war" in F1 too ;)

From Nicks statements:



Because nobody cares about dog of cars, the 2008 was the most important season for the BMW Sauber team, that could be a much more better season for the team, if the second driver doesn't struggled so much with tyres, and if the team wouldn't focus so much on a solution of this tyre problem (for one driver). (And naturally if the team bosses weren't so focusing on 2009).


Numbers (statistics) doesn't say as much about raw pace.

Heidfeld is a bit like Mark Webber - solid, experienced, unspectacular. But probably less prone to make mistakes and given their time together in Williams potentially better.

He's certainly a solid driver to have on your team,not so much as far as results are concerned but for the experience and work ethic he brings. I do think he's overlooked all too often,though-maybe because he comes across as a quiet guy and is rarely in the news...That 'modest' image fits him like a glove.

McLaren should grab him. Fast #1 driver + consistent #2 will make a great team.

I agree. He´s probably the best man for any top team, because he can collect points better than a squirrel collects nuts. He´s proven his worth time and time again. Just because he isn´t a flamboyant type always shouting his mouth off, like one or two others I could mention, doesn´t mean he can´t hold his own with the very best out there. Something tells me Dr T is very reluctant to lose him and that we will see him stay on with his present squad, if in fact they remain intact, which now seems very likely.

An excerpt from your driver rating (in the other thread):

17 - Nick Heidfeld - probably my least-favourite driver on the grid and certainly the most over-rated. Finishing ahead of your team mate is all well and good, but Heidfeld simply cannot convert points finishes to outright wins.
16 - Kazuki Nakajima - in two years, the only thing Nakajima has proven is that a famous (or, in his case, semi-famous) name is no subsitute for outright speed. He's not much more than a test driver who has found himself with a race seat.
[...]
6 - Nico Rosberg - unlike Glock, Rosberg has the ability to win races - and maybe even championships - but in order to do that, he's going to need a good car under him. If he goes to Brawn, it's going to be an interesting phase of his career.
5 - Robert Kubica - has proven that he can retain a hold on a championship even when his main rivals are the ones winning. Unfortunately seems to lose his nerve with a bad car, so hopefully Renault can deliver.

Your perceived gap between Heidfeld and Kubica is larger than the one between Nakajima and Rosberg. I don't think you take a very objective approach on rating Heidfeld.

Then they should keep Kovalainen. He is not any worse than Heidfeld. Actually, they are quite similar in terms of talent and driving style.

Heidfeld is much much better than Kova. Remember that he beat Kimi and Webber.

Kimi was a rookie.
Heidfeld didn't beat Webber. The aussie was a lot faster but shared a couple of bad lucks during the season.

Heidfeld's problem is the lack of "flashes of brilliance". He's damn good on consistency, but I can't remember much of "wow, just how did he put that car up there?" -moments.

Kind of difficult to convince top level team bosses that he's the rough diamond they always seem to want and then mold them to their liking. Nick is more like a very neatly cut diamond, but unfortunately just not big enough.

Geez, talk about rose tinted glasses.

LMS, DTM

there are numorous options, he would be star there

People claim Kimi is naturally fast. That probably means he hasn't increased in overall pace since he's a natural. And Heidfeld still managed to beat him.

I would love to see Heidfeld in the LMS, but not yet. He's not done yet in F1 imo

Nick is probably the highest underrated driver on the grid. If there is one man on the grid who deserves to be a winner by now, it's Nick.

The more I think about it the more I think he'd be the ideal team mate to Lewis. Heikki on his day is faster than Nick IMO, but those days have been rare at McLaren and when he's not on it he's way back and doesnt race strong. McLaren need someone who can be 95% of Lewis all the time. I think Nick is the man for this.

Former Mercedes protege and German might need to shave that beard of to keep Vodaphone happy though

Who said the gap between two drivers is conistent from driver to driver? I tend to rate Nakajima higher than Heidfeld, but only just. At the same time, there's a larger gap between Kubica and Rosberg, despite the fact hat both pairings are only one ranking apart.

And I never claimed to be objective. But I do think Heidfeld is absolutely useless.

Just looking at stats:
Heidfeld earned 215 points where his teammates earned 188 points in total.
Nakajima earned 9 points where his teammates earned 56,5 points in total.

Stop taking my comments out of context. You know perfectly well that I said that while I tend to rate Nakajima higher than Heidfeld, Nakajima only just edges him out. And it's not like I rated Nakajima as #1 and Heidfeld as #20.

And it still doesn't change the fact that I think Nick Heidfeld is useless and I wouldn't be too broken up over it.

I don't think I put this out of context when I say that says more about your thinking then about Heidfeld.

Yes. I think he's useless. The question posed by the thread is where he'll go next season. ecause I think he's useless, we can suppose from that that I don't think he's desering of a tp rive like a McLaren or a Brawn next season.

Underrated / Overrated.... Who rates the drivers?

Us the fans? We can't agree amongst ourselves, so what good are we?

I think that Heidfeld is a good solid driver in the Brundle, Coulthard, Barichello style. By which I mean a first class number 2 driver in a top team. I was at Spa 2004, when he was in the Jordan, and you could see how he manhandled that dog of a car, every lap up Eau Rouge I was made a 'believer' then, simply for how well he raced a dog of a car.

There is a reason that BMW for all intents and purposes placed him at Williams, there is a reason that BMW brought him with them when they became their own team.

I do not think that Heidfeld is a Championship winning driver in F1, he could however be a Grand Prix winner in F1, were he ever to land in the right team at the right time. The one race won by a team mate while he was in the team as well, was Canada last season, he finished second and had Hamilton not removed 3 other drivers neither Kubica nor Heidfeld would have been in with a chance.

Coulthard and Barichello have been in the right team at the right time, and have when ever they were shown themselves to be great backup racers to a designated number 1, and had Heidfeld been at McLaren, Ferrari or Brawn instead of either of them he would be a Grand Prix winner as well.

I rate him as good enough for F1, and hope he will get a seat somewhere next season.

Name one grand prix where he's had the opportunity?

Canada 08 for sure, but that's about it.

Nick is incredibly unlucky not to have won, his huge pile of second places attests to that.

I hope you guys didn't forgot this one:

http://www.viddler.com/explore/Tarya/videos/8/

please show me a more spectacular overtaking maneuver in the last seasons.

But besides this one-shotter, Heidfeld is a class one, second tier driver, as somebody wrote here, the best possible seat no 2 teaker. Very consistent, very good at blocking.

Don't forget http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCcVtKAwwjM

His huge pile of second places nearly all come from some kind of chaos. Malaysia 2009 or Belgium 2008 are the clearest examples for that.

I can't think of more than just 4 of his podiums where he was really there.

Or http://www.viddler.com/explore/Tarya/videos/9/

Hey, what´s your problem? Nick spurn your advances? Maybe you just weren´t his kind.

No, I just entered a debate. I'm not a Heidfeld hater. He can be quite good on his day, like Bahrain 2007, but I'm annoyed why this guy never ever put his car into the lead for more than just a few laps before his pitstop.

He is not the only one, as I still find him far superior to some of these new guys, and on the same level as other solid drivers like Trulli, Fisi, Barrichello, Webber, Kovalainen. But I think none of them gets the same praise as Nick, that's why I look to be a basher. But I'm not.

Then you are clearly not following Nick's career at all.

Lets look at the facts here.

2001 Brazilian GP, 3rd: Finished behind Schumacher and Coulthard. and ahead of a BAR, Toyota and Benetton

2005 Malaysian GP, 3rd: Quick all weekend, podium on merit

2005 Monaco GP, 2nd: Drove a stunning tactical race and looked after his tyres. Pulled off a crucial overtake on Alonso

2005 European GP, 2nd: Started from pole and was quick all day. Only two retirements in this race and all the major players finished.

2006 Hungarian GP, 3rd: Kept his head in poor conditions, made crucial overtakes, especially on Michael Schumacher

2007 Canadian GP, 2nd: Qualified second, held this position at the start, and finished there.

2007 Hungarian GP, 3rd: Qualified third and finished third, behind a McLaren and a Ferrari and ahead of a bunch of fast cars. Not much luck there.

2008 Australian GP, 2nd: Qualified fifth and finished second. Lots of cars DNFed, but Nick was ahead of them anyway.

2008 Canadian GP, 2nd: Great race from 8th on the grid. Sure, there was attrition, but that's racing. This was Nick's best chance to win a GP but he played the team game and didn't hold up Kubica.

2008 British GP, 2nd: One of Nick's greatest races. Made two crucial double overtakes.

2008 Belgian GP, 2nd: You call this luck, I call this incredible foresight. Nick was the only driver who had the balls to overrule his team and come in for a tyre change right at the end of the race. He still had to deliver on that final lap and did, overtaking heaps of cars. A very good example of Nick's excellent racecraft.

2009 Malaysian GP, 2nd: Sure, there's luck involved in this. But so what, Nick kept it together.



So out of Nick's 11 podiums I'd say only one was lucky.

You'd have to say he's incredibly UNlucky not to have won a race.

Almost all his runner up positions have been behind a very strong driver.

Oh come on - Spa 2008 was pure luck - he did not deserve 2nd place. Malaysia 09 was complete luck and he got even luckier that they gifted him that podium because when the race was called, he went off track and was parked in the grass. As for 2007 people seem to forget how many mechanical failures kubica had not to mention he never finished canada, never raced in the USGP, was leading the Chinese GP setting the fastest lap times and was fueled to the end when his gearbox blew. He probably would have taken BMW's maiden victory if not for yet another mechanical failure. Heidfeld as far as I'm concerned didn't beat kubica on merit in 2007 and he got demolished in 2008. Singapore was the first race heidfeld didn't get to finish in a good long while - Kubica has retired from 4 races already this season. Heidfeld has been weighed, measured and found wanting. he is a #2 driver who is fast but not fast enough. F1 teams realize this and that is why Kubica has a seat next year and nick doesn't.