QUOTE (andrew. @ Jan 7 2010, 14:43)

I'd take Giorgio Pantano over a lot of the current drivers/drivers currently rumored. You don't become the most successful driver in F1 feeder-series history by accident and the 'what have you done for me lately' attitude, coupled with the 'he had his chance' mentality is much of what's wrong with this sport.
+2
robracer
Jan 7 2010, 13:55
QUOTE (andrew. @ Jan 7 2010, 13:43)

I'd take Giorgio Pantano over a lot of the current drivers/drivers currently rumored. You don't become the most successful driver in F1 feeder-series history by accident and the 'what have you done for me lately' attitude, coupled with the 'he had his chance' mentality is much of what's wrong with this sport.
QUOTE (Jedi_F1 @ Jan 7 2010, 13:44)

+1
QUOTE (gio66 @ Jan 7 2010, 13:54)

+2
+3
QUOTE (Ringo @ Jan 7 2010, 14:31)

Campos should be at all pre-season tests, starting in Valencia. Good news!
I dont know willbuxton. I hope it very much but I like to read some more concrete.
brabham bt50
Jan 8 2010, 10:24
From the 2010 Silly Season thread from Lustigson
A little birdy whispered some things into my ear, last night:
But — and this is rather shocking — Campos Meta Team appears to be in serious financial difficulties. Dallara Automobili stopped work on the Campos car because it's not getting paid.
Failing to get a car on the grid in 2010 would be a 2nd F1 disaster for Dallara. Remember: in 1999 they designed, built and tested the Honda F1 car with Dr. Harvey Postlethwaite and one Johannes Franciscus Verstappen.
noikeee
Jan 8 2010, 11:02
Will Buxton is the guy that writes for GPWeek, I think.
screamingV16
Jan 8 2010, 11:16
Not really Dallara's fault though. Campos' position is starting to look decidely shaking, very little news or even rhetoric coming from them these days, they almost seem uninterested. It's worrying if Dallara have actually stopped work on the car as this will create a delay even if money is quickly found. I suppose Dallara could look to sell to one of the new teams if/when their cars turns out to be a dogs, but there won't be any in-season testing for it to be evaluated.
All makes one wonder yet again about Max's dodgy selection process and just how flawed it was when teams such as Campos were chosen over Lola or Pro-Drive
QUOTE (paranoik0 @ Jan 8 2010, 12:02)

Will Buxton is the guy that writes for GPWeek, I think.
Thank you.
TheF1PERSON
Jan 8 2010, 11:37
QUOTE (screamingV16 @ Jan 8 2010, 11:16)

Not really Dallara's fault though. Campos' position is starting to look decidely shaking, very little news or even rhetoric coming from them these days, they almost seem uninterested. It's worrying if Dallara have actually stopped work on the car as this will create a delay even if money is quickly found. I suppose Dallara could look to sell to one of the new teams if/when their cars turns out to be a dogs, but there won't be any in-season testing for it to be evaluated.
All makes one wonder yet again about Max's dodgy selection process and just how flawed it was when teams such as Campos were chosen over Lola or Pro-Drive

I think the Lola guy put it aptly. They were being used as pawns against FOTA.
Captain Tightpants
Jan 8 2010, 11:43
QUOTE (TheF1PERSON @ Jan 8 2010, 22:37)

I think the Lola guy put it aptly. They were being used as pawns against FOTA.
But they wouldn't have been chosen if they weren't legitimate racing outfits. Because if FOTA
did break away, the FIA would have been stuck with four non-teams. And they absolutely could not afford that.
And I do detect sour grapes on the part of Lola. It's like Dave Richards saying Formula One doesn't matter despite trying to get onto the grid on three separate occasions in one year.
QUOTE (screamingV16 @ Jan 8 2010, 12:16)

It's worrying if Dallara have actually stopped work on the car as this will create a delay even if money is quickly found.
What concerns me more, if as you say Dallara has suspended the work, is the fact that in Varano they do nothing that has not already been paid in advance.
However I know that until Christmas they were working hard.
This is certainly a confusing situation. Hope for the best anyway.
Captain Tightpants
Jan 8 2010, 11:56
I'd say that if Campos have a problem, it's because they haven't signed a second driver yet. Both Petrov and Maldonado are said to come with over twenty millions dollars in sponsorship, money which would greatly help the team, but money which isn't flowing to where it is needed. By now the Dallara chassis should be pretty much done; it just nees the finishing touches, so I don't think it's a massive problem. If it were, Campos probably would have withdrawn by now.
QUOTE (TheF1PERSON @ Jan 8 2010, 12:37)

I think the Lola guy put it aptly. They were being used as pawns against FOTA.
By the way, anyone can tell me what FOTA is for?
TheF1PERSON
Jan 8 2010, 11:58
What they really needed is to have sorted out driver contracts and sponsorship earlier, otherwise they wouldn't have been in this predicament.
Plus, it's their fault for signing Bruno Senna without asking him to provide anything.
brabham bt50
Jan 8 2010, 12:03
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Jan 8 2010, 12:56)

I'd say that if Campos have a problem, it's because they haven't signed a second driver yet. Both Petrov and Maldonado are said to come with over twenty millions dollars in sponsorship, money which would greatly help the team, but money which isn't flowing to where it is needed. By now the Dallara chassis should be pretty much done; it just nees the finishing touches, so I don't think it's a massive problem. If it were, Campos probably would have withdrawn by now.
I think any driver would want a garantee before he brings money to and signs a contract with Campos, remember that Bruno Senna is not a paydriver as he has stated. Perhaps Campos can not garantee potential F1 drivers for their team that they will be on the grid in 2010 ?
Captain Tightpants
Jan 8 2010, 12:07
QUOTE (brabham bt50 @ Jan 8 2010, 23:03)

I think any driver would want a garantee before he brings money to and signs a contract with Campos, remember that Bruno Senna is not a paydriver as he has stated. Perhaps Campos can not garantee potential F1 drivers for their team that they will be on the grid in 2010 ?
I believe the point of contntion has more to do with the date by which the sponsorship money will be paid and how it is going to be paid to the team.
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Jan 8 2010, 12:56)

I'd say that if Campos have a problem, it's because they haven't signed a second driver yet. Both Petrov and Maldonado are said to come with over twenty millions dollars in sponsorship, money which would greatly help the team, but money which isn't flowing to where it is needed. By now the Dallara chassis should be pretty much done; it just nees the finishing touches, so I don't think it's a massive problem. If it were, Campos probably would have withdrawn by now.
I hope you're right, but if Campos should really only choose between Petrov and Maldonado, I don't understand why he's waiting. If both bring more than 20 million, and then complete the budget, then one is as good as the other (I don't mean the talent).
My doubt is that those numbers are not true.
Captain Tightpants
Jan 8 2010, 12:14
QUOTE (gio66 @ Jan 8 2010, 23:08)

I hope you're right, but if Campos should really only choose between Petrov and Maldonado, I don't understand why he's waiting. If both bring more than 20 million, and then complete the budget, then one is as good as the other (I don't mean the talent).
It's known to be twenty million. They let slip how much some drivers were offering months ago when Piquet was first linked to the team (not at the end of December, but before then) The thing is that Petrov has a provision for more sponsor dollars if they're needed, so if he gets into a biddng war with another driver, his sponsors are willing to pay more. I'm guessing Maldonado also has that provision.
And it could be that Campos have signed a driver by now and are waiting to annouce it ona certain date.
TheF1PERSON
Jan 8 2010, 12:14
Last time we heard from Campos was on the Piquet rumours. So I don't think it's just between Petrov and Maldanado.
Captain Tightpants
Jan 8 2010, 12:23
QUOTE (TheF1PERSON @ Jan 8 2010, 23:14)

Last time we heard from Campos was on the Piquet rumours.
It's Petrov and Maldonado. Those Piquet stories were spread by the Spanish press on December 28th, which is known as the Day of the Innocents. It's kind of like April Fools' Day, a time for playing pranks. Nevertheless, Campos moved to clear up the situation: they said they had nothing against Nelson Piquet, but they don't have a place for him in the team. Adrian Campos refuses to run two drivers of the same nationality.
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Jan 8 2010, 13:14)

The thing is that Petrov has a provision for more sponsor dollars if they're needed, so if he gets into a biddng war with another driver, his sponsors are willing to pay more. I'm guessing Maldonado also has that provision.
Thank you.
TheF1PERSON
Jan 8 2010, 13:05
I think it's likely to be the dilemma of a long term view now.
Petrov is arguably the more talented driver of the two, but probably provides less sponsorship than Maldanado (I don't know this but I'm just assuming). Adrian and the team are probably fussing over more sponsorship or a better driver.
Plus, if Maldanado keeps crashing the Campos car, they need money in order to repair it, and Campos might have budget problems when it comes to repairing.
But the problem of getting someone else to build your car for you due to a limited budget seems to have caught them out.
EDIT:
A blog from Mr. Saward:
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/...-campos-meta-1/
craftverk
Jan 8 2010, 13:12
QUOTE (TheF1PERSON @ Jan 8 2010, 13:05)

What's he talking about? Word is out that Pedro does have sponsor money, and I wouldn't call Campos the most solid of the new teams either.
TheF1PERSON
Jan 8 2010, 13:13
I have no idea to be honest. He didn't mention anything about the latest financial rumours either.
monza2001
Jan 8 2010, 13:32
QUOTE (craftverk @ Jan 8 2010, 14:12)

What's he talking about? Word is out that Pedro does have sponsor money, and I wouldn't call Campos the most solid of the new teams either.

There were rumours that Pedro might have the support of 4 million of € from la Caixa, but it´s only rumours and nothing sure.
highdownforce
Jan 8 2010, 13:56
QUOTE (monza2001 @ Jan 8 2010, 11:32)

There were rumours that Pedro might have the support of 4 million of € from la Caixa, but it´s only rumours and nothing sure.
That's not enough money for Campos, that's the problem.
TheF1PERSON
Jan 8 2010, 14:04
monza2001
Jan 8 2010, 14:18
QUOTE (highdownforce @ Jan 8 2010, 14:56)

That's not enough money for Campos, that's the problem.
Teah, Campos is looking for 10 millions, and the candidates for that kind of money are Maldonado (more money, worst driver) and Petrov (less money, better driver).
De la Rosa had been a candidate if someone like Tony Fernandes or Richard Branson had bought a major part of the team.
William Hunt
Jan 8 2010, 15:40
Who says that Maldonado is worse than Petrov? They drove for different teams, both have shown very good pace with Petrov a bit more consistency but both were competitive. Who says that Maldonado would not have finished ahead of Petrov in the standings if they had swapped teams? In terms of raw speed I don't think Maldonado is slower as Petrov at all.
TheF1PERSON
Jan 8 2010, 15:42
GP2 is a spec series, so ideally, all the cars should be the same.
highdownforce
Jan 8 2010, 15:43
But we know that's is far from true.
TheF1PERSON
Jan 8 2010, 15:45
Indeed, hence the word ideally.
QUOTE (highdownforce @ Jan 8 2010, 16:43)

But we know that's is far from true.
Very far, especially with regard to the engines.
QUOTE (TheF1PERSON @ Jan 8 2010, 15:04)

Test maybe, season apparently not.
Campos to be sold?
Captain Tightpants
Jan 8 2010, 22:39
QUOTE (monza2001 @ Jan 9 2010, 00:32)

There were rumours that Pedro might have the support of 4 million of € from la Caixa, but it´s only rumours and nothing sure.
Campos have long since admited that while de la Rosa might be their ideal driver, it's probably not going to happen. After all, Petrov and Maldonado each have at least four times as much as he does.
Timstr11
Jan 8 2010, 22:42
QUOTE (peroa @ Jan 8 2010, 23:34)

Test maybe, season apparently not.
Campos to be sold?Dieter Rencken is the co-author so it looks like credible story.
Even if they have the money to race, it's safe to assume that the car has been developed on an extremely tight budget.
I expect a chicane on 4 wheels.
Captain Tightpants
Jan 8 2010, 22:58
QUOTE (Timstr11 @ Jan 9 2010, 09:42)

Even if they have the money to race, it's safe to assume that the car has been developed on an extremely tight budget.
I expect a chicane on 4 wheels.
A low budget does not guarantee a slow car. Honda and Toyota have already proven that pouring hundred of millions of dollars into development does not guarantee you race wins (or even regular points). If your people know what they're doing and the stars align the right way, there's no reason why you cannot succeed. Campos' budget is forty-eight million Euros; Lotus are only spending fifty-five million, while Virgin are doing it on less than forty million.
monza2001
Jan 8 2010, 23:00
QUOTE (Timstr11 @ Jan 8 2010, 23:42)

Dieter Rencken is the co-author so it looks like credible story.
Even if they have the money to race, it's safe to assume that the car has been developed on an extremely tight budget.
I expect a chicane on 4 wheels.
I put the same that i said in the silly season post:
I don´t think the team is for sale, probably Adrian is looking for someone who puts a lot of money (something like Richard Branson have done with Manor).
And with the drivers, well everybody knows that Campos is quite short on $$$$$$$$$ so he will sign Petro or Maldonado because both drivers have more money than anybody else. Yes Pedro de la Rosa is their number one objetive, but this is only for the media because they know that it´s impossible to sign him. Indeed PDLR seems almost certain with Sauber. Anyway I expect to see them in Shakir fighting with USF1 and other new teams.
Timstr11
Jan 8 2010, 23:02
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Jan 8 2010, 23:58)

A low budget does not guarantee a slow car. Honda and Toyota have already proven that pouring hundred of millions of dollars into development does not guarantee you race wins (or even regular points). If your people know what they're doing and the stars align the right way, there's no reason why you cannot succeed. Campos' budget is forty-eight million Euros; Lotus are only spending fifty-five million, while Virgin are doing it on less than forty million.
Oh we've heard that story so many times, it's getting old and tired.
Bottom line is you need a minimum of resources to be competitive. That's fact.
With hardly any money for proper research and development, a poss is a certainty.
BlackCat
Jan 8 2010, 23:15
why not dump the nephew and take both Petrov and Maldonado?
Captain Tightpants
Jan 8 2010, 23:18
QUOTE (BlackCat @ Jan 9 2010, 10:15)

why not dump the nephew and take both Petrov and Maldonado?
Because Bruno Senna has a contract. And also because Petrov's money comes from Gazprom and Maldonado's from PDVSA. Both are oil and gas consortiums, and would no doubt have objections sharing sponsor space.
Sausage
Jan 9 2010, 03:35
QUOTE (peroa @ Jan 8 2010, 23:34)

Test maybe, season apparently not.
Campos to be sold?Let me just transalte that:
QUOTE (motorsport)
The newcomer team Campos can still be sold partially or whole before the season start in March. From information that the paper has they are searching for potential investors. Campos is one of the 4 new teams who will enter F1 in 2010. With Bruno Senna already 1 driver seat has been filled. In the beginning of February the team will test for the first time, however the money is tight.
"It's no secret that we don't have the budget. And the time is limited", says one source close to the team. "When we find an investor, negotiate, if we can sell a part or the whole team. For that to happen the investment plan must be solid."
The paper says they are talking with multiple interested parties. One of thes the boss of A1GP, the South African bussinesman Tony Teixeira. He already has longer plans to enter F1. He was interested in Spyker and Toro Rosso before. But then he was hindered by the ban on customer chassis. At the start of 2009 he tried to take over the ex-Honda team so he could shortly make his own team.
At Campos men knows that the time is short. nonetheless the hope to have found an investor before the 14th of Januari.
Ok, so I just butchered both the German and English languages, it's pretty acurate but theire both not my 1st language so forgive me
Captain Tightpants
Jan 9 2010, 04:27
It's pretty clear - from the English translation at least - that it's not as drastic as some people have assumed. Words like "can be" and "potentially" jump off the screen at me; it suggests nothing is absolute. At least for now.
TheF1PERSON
Jan 9 2010, 10:05
Well, we should expect to see a new investor in Campos sometime soon.
Which makes sense as they are the only new team who doesn't have one.
Lotus have the support of the Malaysian government.
USF1 have backing from Chad Hurley
Virgin have Rich Branson on board.
And Campos just have themselves. No wonder they are struggling.
Captain Tightpants
Jan 9 2010, 10:08
QUOTE (TheF1PERSON @ Jan 9 2010, 21:05)

Well, we should expect to see a new investor in Campos sometime soon.
Which makes sense as they are the only new team who doesn't have one.
Lotus have the support of the Malaysian government.
USF1 have backing from Chad Hurley
Virgin have Rich Branson on board.
And Campos just have themselves. No wonder they are struggling.
They have the Murcia government in Spain.
TheF1PERSON
Jan 9 2010, 10:13
Well, I wasn't aware of that one, but clearly the Murcia government aren't providing very much.
Seeing as Tony Fernandes is behind Air Asia along with the Malaysian government, Campos have probably realised they need more investment in the team than they currently have.
Captain Tightpants
Jan 9 2010, 10:23
QUOTE (TheF1PERSON @ Jan 9 2010, 21:13)

Well, I wasn't aware of that one, but clearly the Murcia government aren't providing very much.
The Murcia govenrment is more of a future thing: Campos are going to build a permanent base there, complete with purpose-built test circuit with a three-kilometre straight.
1fastSS
Jan 9 2010, 10:29
Look, it's 22 days, and testing starts. The fact that the've got no funding cannot be a good sign. We very well may see Ferrari Luca's Ms and Bernies predictions come true that not all will wind up on the grid. I sure hope not.
dabrasco
Jan 9 2010, 10:32
i have a feeling this team will have the slowest car on the grid
Captain Tightpants
Jan 9 2010, 10:37
QUOTE (1fastSS @ Jan 9 2010, 21:29)

Look, it's 22 days, and testing starts. The fact that the've got no funding cannot be a good sign.
It's not that they haven't got funding - it's that they feel they migh need
more. By now the car is pretty much complete, except maybe for the finishing touches. And they'll be getting closer and closer to a driver annoucement. But the team evidently thinks they need a bit more moey on hand, just in case. I'd say it would be for stuff like aero upgrades throughout the season.
QUOTE (TheF1PERSON @ Jan 9 2010, 11:13)

Well, I wasn't aware of that one, but clearly the Murcia government aren't providing very much.
This article a few weeks ago it speaks of a sponsorship of 3 million per year for three years by the local television "no-typical" and a potential (but not certain) funding of 20 million euros by Government of Murcia.
http://www.laopiniondemurcia.es/comunidad/...cia/218767.html
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