Hello,
For my first post here at Atlas' F1 Forums I need some info regarding the very fast German track, A.V.U.S. You see, a man is working on this track for Grand Prix Legends (a PC game)and he needs some information. So, if you will just drop by some info on this track, it will greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Full Version: Information Regarding A.V.U.S.
Stories about the Titans, the cars of the 30s, commonly have pics... check books on this era. Barry will tell you the best ones...
Wasn't there a Don's article around describing the track and one of the races on it. If I'm not mistaken it's in the season '59 series. It should be that, just have checked it out- '59 German GP was on Avus; and there's a link to site which may prove helpful:
http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/avus.html
As for finding the article- on ATLAS front page click on the search button, and there's a link to all Don's articles. There are few pertaining '59 season, but take your pick; they're all marvellous reading.
http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/avus.html
As for finding the article- on ATLAS front page click on the search button, and there's a link to all Don's articles. There are few pertaining '59 season, but take your pick; they're all marvellous reading.
I thought there was a book (in German) on the history of Avus - and I thought I had it, but it doesn't show up in my catalogue.
Does that mean I have it and somehow managed not to catalogue it? Perhaps I planned to buy it but didn't and it somehow slipped off my "wants" list.
The funny thing is I can picture it in my mind, sitting in my hands. I remember it as having a pictorial hard cover (no dust jacket).
If I come up with the name of it, I will let you know.
Does that mean I have it and somehow managed not to catalogue it? Perhaps I planned to buy it but didn't and it somehow slipped off my "wants" list.
The funny thing is I can picture it in my mind, sitting in my hands. I remember it as having a pictorial hard cover (no dust jacket).
If I come up with the name of it, I will let you know.
For 1959, Avus was a mere shadow of its former self... I don't have the statistics, but it was shortened (was one end in the Eastern Sector of Berlin?) and there was only one banked corner... and what a corner...
The 1959 image is of Hans Hermann coming out of an inverted BRM as it tumbles down the road at the hairpin end.
What a crazy circuit for a GP!
The 1959 image is of Hans Hermann coming out of an inverted BRM as it tumbles down the road at the hairpin end.
What a crazy circuit for a GP!
This is the book. I didn't have it after all; I had missed out on it when a few were sold in England.
Mythos Avus Automobilsport in Berlin by Richard Kitschigin.
Ullstein, Bln., 1995. 160 S. mit zahlr. Abb., Pbd.U. Kfz.
Mythos Avus Automobilsport in Berlin by Richard Kitschigin.
Ullstein, Bln., 1995. 160 S. mit zahlr. Abb., Pbd.U. Kfz.
Rennen, Reifen und Rekorde (Die Avus Story) by Richard Kitschigen, Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart, 1972.
Die Avus im Rückspiegel by Ulrich Kubisch/Gert Rietner, Elefanten Press Verlag, Berlin, 1987.
Die Avus im Rückspiegel by Ulrich Kubisch/Gert Rietner, Elefanten Press Verlag, Berlin, 1987.
So, Hans, how about you fill us in on the basics... the length of the original lap and of the shortened lap, and was there a banking at the other end?
Just not sure about that last one, but I think there had to be for Lang to have averaged 162mph for the duration of a race.
Just not sure about that last one, but I think there had to be for Lang to have averaged 162mph for the duration of a race.
No time to write something new. Here two excerpts out of my files:
The Avusrennen in 1935 was the last race to be held on the old circuit, which had remained basically the same since its inauguration in 1921. The Avus outside the capital Berlin in the Grunewald forest, consisted of two nine km long straights, which ran next to each other, separated by a narrow grass strip. At each end both straights were connected with wide banked curves. At the exit of the North Turn was a building complex, part of which was the North Gate, the starting place used in previous years and 831 meters ahead of the finish line. The 1935 race was run in two five laps heats, from which the first four finishers of each formed the grid of the 10 laps final. The reason for having heat races was that according to the promotor the long 15 laps 1934 race had been boring and stated that tires would not last at these high speeds. On race day, an immense crowd of over 300,000 spectators lined the 19.573 km track.
The Avusrennen in 1937 After a one-year break the Avus Races on the outskirts of Berlin were revived again but without the 750 kg formula restrictions. The Avus circuit comprised an almost six mile stretch of Autobahn joined at the Potsdam end by the slightly banked South Loop and at the Berlin end in the North by another 180-degree turn. The two straight stretches were a dull affair, however they permitted a considerable run up for the ever faster getting cars.
The assignment was, to raise the value of the now almost old-fashioned gotten track and being able to maintain the claim to have the racetrack with the fastest lap speeds. There were then two important alterations: the new North Turn with the administration building and the considerable widening of the starting place with modern main grandstand. The Nazis, always taking trouble for the superlative, ordered the construction of a steep curve, to offer the spectators a greater spectacle and raising cornering speed at the same time. A long planned access road to the Berlin exhibition grounds was needed and the Avus happened to be in the way.
Therefore the old 30 feet wide sweeping turn at the north end of the track had given way to a massive 60 feet high "wall of death," banked at 43,6°, enabling higher lap speeds than before. At the same time the North Turn had moved further south and this shortened the track by 287 meters, one lap now measuring 19,286 km. The North Turn had also become narrower with a radius of 302 feet, paved with special non-skid type clinkers, and was completed end of March 1937 to raise the already colossal lap speeds to an expected 170 to 180 mph.
Because of the two long straight runs the Avus was the only track in the world, which made it possible for a racing car to demonstrate its end speed. The Avus already had established itself as the fastest track in the world, when Fagioli won for Mercedes-Benz the 1935 Avusrennen at 148 mph, faster than Indianapolis at 109 mph in 1936, Tripoli at 134 mph in 1937 or Brooklands with a 143 mph lap record.
The Avusrennen in 1935 was the last race to be held on the old circuit, which had remained basically the same since its inauguration in 1921. The Avus outside the capital Berlin in the Grunewald forest, consisted of two nine km long straights, which ran next to each other, separated by a narrow grass strip. At each end both straights were connected with wide banked curves. At the exit of the North Turn was a building complex, part of which was the North Gate, the starting place used in previous years and 831 meters ahead of the finish line. The 1935 race was run in two five laps heats, from which the first four finishers of each formed the grid of the 10 laps final. The reason for having heat races was that according to the promotor the long 15 laps 1934 race had been boring and stated that tires would not last at these high speeds. On race day, an immense crowd of over 300,000 spectators lined the 19.573 km track.
The Avusrennen in 1937 After a one-year break the Avus Races on the outskirts of Berlin were revived again but without the 750 kg formula restrictions. The Avus circuit comprised an almost six mile stretch of Autobahn joined at the Potsdam end by the slightly banked South Loop and at the Berlin end in the North by another 180-degree turn. The two straight stretches were a dull affair, however they permitted a considerable run up for the ever faster getting cars.
The assignment was, to raise the value of the now almost old-fashioned gotten track and being able to maintain the claim to have the racetrack with the fastest lap speeds. There were then two important alterations: the new North Turn with the administration building and the considerable widening of the starting place with modern main grandstand. The Nazis, always taking trouble for the superlative, ordered the construction of a steep curve, to offer the spectators a greater spectacle and raising cornering speed at the same time. A long planned access road to the Berlin exhibition grounds was needed and the Avus happened to be in the way.
Therefore the old 30 feet wide sweeping turn at the north end of the track had given way to a massive 60 feet high "wall of death," banked at 43,6°, enabling higher lap speeds than before. At the same time the North Turn had moved further south and this shortened the track by 287 meters, one lap now measuring 19,286 km. The North Turn had also become narrower with a radius of 302 feet, paved with special non-skid type clinkers, and was completed end of March 1937 to raise the already colossal lap speeds to an expected 170 to 180 mph.
Because of the two long straight runs the Avus was the only track in the world, which made it possible for a racing car to demonstrate its end speed. The Avus already had established itself as the fastest track in the world, when Fagioli won for Mercedes-Benz the 1935 Avusrennen at 148 mph, faster than Indianapolis at 109 mph in 1936, Tripoli at 134 mph in 1937 or Brooklands with a 143 mph lap record.
The post war circuit was shorter, though? Leif's site doesn't seem to mention it... what about Darren's?
So there you go... 8.299km with the balance chopped off because of its intrusion into the Eastern zone...
Nice bit of history in that, Don.
Nice bit of history in that, Don.
"The Automobil Verkehrs und Ubungs-Strasse was conceived in 1907 as a test track for the motor industry as well as for motorsport. It was the ideas of the Automobilklub von Deutschland but there was little money for the project and it was six years before work began. The track took the form of a section of dual carriageway on the south-west outskirts of Berlin from Charlottenburg to Nikolassee, with banked loops at each end. By 1913 the enormous undertaking had run out of money, and with the war work stopped. Later Russian prisonoers were employed to continue construction, although the track was still only half built when the 1918 armistice came.
Post-war Germany was virtually bankrupt, but the remainder of the track was financed by Huge Stinnes and AVUS opened at last in September 1921. This was the site of the first German Grand Prix (for sportscars) in 1926, won by the Mercedes of Rudolf Caracciola. The following year, with competition from the new Nurbrugring, it was decided to increase the banking in the north curve to 43 degrees. Throughout the 1930's racingcontinued in Berlin but AVUS was overshadowed by the infintely more entertaining Nurburgring.
Then came the Second World War and the collapse of Germany. When Berlin fell, among the first to visit AVUS were American GI's and one of their number, Chris Economaki, remembers lapping the track in a jeep and having the alarming experience of finding a wooden staircase buil across one of the loops. It was here too that President Harry Truman inspected the US troops during the Potsdam conference. But AVUS had a problem: the south loop (at the Nikolassee end) was on the wrong side of the city, in the soviet sector.
With Germany in ruins, and the blockade of Berlin during the Cold War, it was a long time beore racing returned to Berlin. In 1954, with a new unbanked south loop cutting the track to 5.15 miles, AVUS returned with the non-championship F1 Grand Prix of Berlin - a Mercedes 1-2-3 with local hero Karl Kling leading home Juan Manuel Fangio and Hans Herrmann.
In 1959 the German Grand Prix paid a final visit to AVUS - the only World Championship GP held there, won by Tony Brooks - at a meeting now chiefly remembered for the death of Jean Behra on the banking. Thereafter the track held little more than international Formula Junior races. although German national events have continued to visit each year. The north bend was dismantled in 1967, but the character of AVUS remains as it always was - fast up, fast back and an absurd corner at each end."
The World Atlas of Motor Racing - by Joe Saward, Hamyln Publishing Group, 1989
Post-war Germany was virtually bankrupt, but the remainder of the track was financed by Huge Stinnes and AVUS opened at last in September 1921. This was the site of the first German Grand Prix (for sportscars) in 1926, won by the Mercedes of Rudolf Caracciola. The following year, with competition from the new Nurbrugring, it was decided to increase the banking in the north curve to 43 degrees. Throughout the 1930's racingcontinued in Berlin but AVUS was overshadowed by the infintely more entertaining Nurburgring.
Then came the Second World War and the collapse of Germany. When Berlin fell, among the first to visit AVUS were American GI's and one of their number, Chris Economaki, remembers lapping the track in a jeep and having the alarming experience of finding a wooden staircase buil across one of the loops. It was here too that President Harry Truman inspected the US troops during the Potsdam conference. But AVUS had a problem: the south loop (at the Nikolassee end) was on the wrong side of the city, in the soviet sector.
With Germany in ruins, and the blockade of Berlin during the Cold War, it was a long time beore racing returned to Berlin. In 1954, with a new unbanked south loop cutting the track to 5.15 miles, AVUS returned with the non-championship F1 Grand Prix of Berlin - a Mercedes 1-2-3 with local hero Karl Kling leading home Juan Manuel Fangio and Hans Herrmann.
In 1959 the German Grand Prix paid a final visit to AVUS - the only World Championship GP held there, won by Tony Brooks - at a meeting now chiefly remembered for the death of Jean Behra on the banking. Thereafter the track held little more than international Formula Junior races. although German national events have continued to visit each year. The north bend was dismantled in 1967, but the character of AVUS remains as it always was - fast up, fast back and an absurd corner at each end."
The World Atlas of Motor Racing - by Joe Saward, Hamyln Publishing Group, 1989
Barry Collerson ran F3 there and has some memories of the place. Particularly of going flat out on the banking...
Ray,
You mean F3's could only do 110 mph?
You mean F3's could only do 110 mph?
A good 3-page history of the AVUS appeared in Veteran & Vintage. It was written by H.O.Neubauer under the title 'Fifty years of AVUS - 1921-1971'.
Although I have the article, I don't know it's date. Anybody out there got an index of V&V?
Although I have the article, I don't know it's date. Anybody out there got an index of V&V?
I don't know the answer to that Hans, but this is the story I was told. I must talk to him (and Wal Donnelly, who was also on that merry go round) at length some time.
Jim Sullivan was another who may have been there.
Jim Sullivan was another who may have been there.
Here is a picture showing the 43-degree banking of the Nordkurve built prior to the 1937 Avusrennen.
This picture shows Richard von Frankenberk's Porsche going over the top of the banking in 1956. He suffered a fractured skull, but survived. Jean Behra wasn't so lucky three years lateer.
barry collerson has had a super 8 camara with in his 66-67 european f3 season .
he made a very interessting film .
very interesstin minutes from the avus in this film .
regards , roger
he made a very interessting film .
very interesstin minutes from the avus in this film .
regards , roger
Some more AVUS info (probably already given in another thread) :
http://members.a1.net/wabweb/history/avus.htm
http://members.a1.net/wabweb/history/avus.htm
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