Supposedly, this was "The Race" to win according to Roy Salvadori. He said that Le Mans was a very prestigeous race to win but he felt that a win in the Nurburgring 1000 Kms meant more back then in his opinion. I did a quick glance of my records and I don't think Roy ever won this race. If not, that would give his opinion even more merit.

I just had to post this out because my hometown hero Masten Gregory won this race in 1961 teamed up with Lucky Casner in a Birdcage Maserati T61, despite having no sponsor and having to borrow tires after the final practice session. Masten may have not won a bunch of the big races but winning the Nurburgring 1000 Kms and Le Mans I think really validated his talent.

When I get time, I will post all of the drivers who won this race. If someone else has time, please beat me to it.[p][smallfont][Edited by Joe Fan on 09-29-2000][/smallfont]

Nürburgring 1000 Kilometer Races 1953-1988

• 1953 Ascari/Farina (Ferrari) 8h20m44s
• 1954 no race
• 1955 500 km race; J. Behra (Maserati) 4h02m30.4s
• 1956 Moss/Behra/Taruffi/Shell (Maserati) 7h43m54.5s
• 1957 Brooks/Cunningham-Reid (Aston Martin) 7h33m38.2s
• 1958 Moss/Brabham (Aston Martin) 7h23m33s
• 1959 Moss/Fairman (Aston/Martin) 7h33m18s
• 1960 Moss/Gurney (Maserati) 7h31m40.5s
• 1961 Gregory/Casner (Maserati) 7h51m39.2s
• 1962 P. Hill/Gendebien (Ferrari) 7h33m27.7s
• 1963 Surtees/Mairesse (Ferrari) 7h31m18s
• 1964 Scarfiotti/Vaccarella (Ferrari) 7h08m27.0s
• 1965 Surtees/Scarfiotti (Ferrari) 6h53m05.5s
• 1966 P. Hill/Bonnier (Chaparral) 6h58m47.6s
• 1967 Schütz/Buzetta (Porsche) 6h54m12.9s
• 1968 Siffert/Elford (Porsche) 6h34m06.3s
• 1969 Siffert/Redman (Porsche) 6h11m02.3s
• 1970 Ahrens Jr./Elford (Porsche) 6h05m21.2s
• 1971 Elford/Larousse (Porsche) 5h51m49.3s
• 1972 Peterson/Schenken (Ferrari) 6h01m40.2s
• 1973 Ickx/Redman (Ferrari) 5h36m53.4s
• 1974 753.55 km; Beltoise/Jarier (Marta-Simca) 4h07m24.1s
• 1975 Merzario/Laffite (Alfa Romeo) 5h41m14.1s
• 1976 47 laps; Quester/Krebs (BMW) 6h38m20.6s
• 1977 Hezemans/Schenken/Stommelen (Porsche) 5h58m30.5s
• 1978 Ludwig/Heyer/Hezemans (Porsche) 5h55m46.6s
• 1979 Schurti/Fitzpatrick/Wollek (Porsche) 5h57m35.1s
• 1980 Stommelen/J. Barth (Porsche) 5h52m15.1s
• 1981 17 laps; Stuck Jr./Piquet (BMW) 2h16m50.86s
• 1982 Patrese/Alboreto/Fabi (Lancia) 5h54m10.83s
• 1983 Mass/Ickx (Porsche) 5h26m34.63s
• 1984 New Circuit, 207 laps; Bellof/Bell (Porsche) 6h00m43.59s
• 1985 No race
• 1986 New Circuit, 121; Thackwell/Pescarolo (Sauber-Mercedes) 3h42m30.02s
• 1987 New Circuit, 221; Cheever/Boesel (Jaguar) 5h55m53.12s
• 1988 New Circuit, 200; Schlesser/Mass (Sauber-Mercedes) 5h53m00.60s

[p][smallfont][Edited by Hans Etzrodt on 09-29-2000][/smallfont]

Thanks Hans!!

Look no Fangio or Clark!

In 1956, Fangio/Castellotti (Ferrari) came second, 26.2 seconds behind the four other guys.
In 1957, Fangio/Moss/Godia/Gould (Maserati) came fifth, one lap behind. Godia/Gould drove up to lap 22, when Fangio/Moss took over, after their car had broken down, completing 43 laps. The 1000 km distance went usually over 44 laps.

And no Senna and no Prost and no Stewart Just a matter of distributing priorities I guess. Masten Gregory was a good to very good driver in many categories, while people like Senna were extremely good at one thing. Seems like the latter is more of a guarantee to fame among the masses. In other words, this is probably the thing that makes Gregory a world class driver to just a few people.

Marcel, I happened to come across this information the other day and I thought of you. In 1961 at Sebring, Graham Hill and Stirling Moss were to drive a Camoradi Birdcage Maserati T63 with Masten and Lucky Casner in a T61 in the 12 hour race. Apparently, both Graham and Stirling felt that the T63 was unbalanced and undrivable so they wanted the T61 which Lloyd gave them. Well, guess who led the first three laps of the race and was running in the lead pack until a pit road speeding violation? Masten Gregory in the "undrivable" T63. After Graham and Stirling's car dropped out, Stirling did drive the car later but the car eventually dropped out due to suspension failure. The car was sent back to the factory after that. http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.masera...006.tipo.63.htm

My point here is that Masten wasn't spoiled to driving top equipment like some drivers were and he was certainly able to make lemonade when handed lemons driving privateer equipment all his career. He did it at Nurburgring in 1961 and at Le Mans in 1965. How many drivers have won both of these prized races? How much are these underdog wins worth compared to a top notch factory drive "show up and win" type win? And what would Masten have done in the equipment that Moss, Fangio, Clark, Brabham and Graham Hill had? Well, he would have been an extremely good driver then since he had extremely good equipment.

As Don Capp's Oscar Wilde quote states, "The truth is rarely pure and never simple." You just have to be motivated to find it.[p][smallfont][Edited by Joe Fan on 09-30-2000][/smallfont]

Sports car fans can find complete results on Martin Krejci's site:

http://www.angelfire.com/me/krejcimar/

Roy Salvadori came 2nd in the 1953 race (with Ian Stewart) in an Ecurie Ecosse Jaguar C-type.

Hans, it is "Noel Cunningham-Reid" -- whose sole function it seemed was to give Tony Brooks a break to use the latrine...

Oh, yeah, I used to go to these races: they were a blast! I can't really explain it, but they were just superb events. The 44 laps definitely made for a lot of action and opportunities to excel galore.

As for Clark, don't forget the performance of the Lotus 23 with the 1.6-litre (1,558cc) Lotus twin-cam Ford in 1962! The little 23 was like a rocket-powered rollerskate and Clark actually led the opening laps before the 'Ring overcame the Lotus. It sold a lot of 23's when they became available...

The start of the 1961 Sebring race that Joe mentions must have been a real hoot. Moss, the master of the Le Mans start sprinted across the track, jumped in ... and found his car had a flat battery. It took Camoradi six minutes to change it, but it provided Stirling with another excuse for one of his catchup drives.

I suspect that when Salvadori said that the Nurburgring 1000kms was the race to win, he meant that it was much more a test of drivers the was Le Mans. THe 24-hr race was very much the Grand Prix d'Endurance in those days whereas they could race at the 'Ring. Le Mans was rarely won by the fastest drivers. The master of the race in the 50s was the man who won it three times in succession, the first two virtually single-handed.

Incidentally, was the Gregory/Casner win the last for Maserati in a major race?

Don,
Thank you for pointing out my misspelled "Noel Cunningham-Reid" name, ever so gently. Mistakes like that happen when one copies blindly without cross-checking. I fixed it.

Don, I'm surprised at you.... the Lotus 23 Clark drove in this race was (at least reportedly) only 1100cc or 1300cc, certainly not a 1558cc. I recall this specifically because the head was never again seen on a smaller engine, it kind of stood out as an anomoly. What size was it for Le Mans - where it didn't run after the famous wheel stud fiasco?

Reports at the time said the Lotus was 1480cc. THe capacity was increased to 1558 for production in the Elan and the Lous cortina.

The 1962 Le Mans Lotus Mk23 were:

nr.47, Lotus Engineering, Jim Clark-Trevor Taylor, frame nr.K 23 AZ, engine nr.S 213259 E, Ford type F105E, 997 cc., weight 459 kg., class Prototype.

nr.48, U.D.T.-Laystall, engine FWMC Climax, 742 cc., weight 436 kg., class Prototype.

Roger, you have summed up the general sentiment about a win at the Ring and Le Mans perfectly. Le Mans was still the most prestigeous sportscar race in the world to win. Perhaps even the most prestigeous race in the world to win period. Enzo Ferrari said something to the effect that when he won any F1 Grand Prix, he would get a few congratulatory letters and telegrams but whenever he won Le Mans, he would get a bundle from people all over the world. Le Mans was a test of a driver's patience, physical endurance and ability to take care of his car under any and all types of conditions. But a Nurburgring 1000 Km win meant more apparently to the drivers since it was viewed a truer test of skill.

While we're rushing headlong into this Lotus 23 stuff, does anyone know more about the Clark/Taylor car's engine?
It seems logical enough that they didn't trust the twink head to last out a race of that distance, and it may have been over-valved for an engine of that size, which was obviously fitted in order to go for the big index awards, but what head did it have?
The weight of the car indicates an engine only 50lbs heavier than the tiny special 750 Climax... this with the iron Ford block, undoubtedly with steel crank? Did it have a downdraught head, perhaps cast in alloy?
It's admittedly a long time ago, and about a car that only turned up for scrutineering once, but interesting, nevertheless.
For those who, after reading The Phantom, came in late: This car had 6-stud wheels at the rear and 4-stud at the front (no doubt because of shelf supplies at the factory), and the French decreed that it must be the same front and rear. The rears were changed to match the front, so the answer then was, "If you felt it should have had 6-stud wheels before, surely it will no longer be safe with 4-stud wheels... go away!" Chapman went away, never to return.

Roger, yes this Nurburgring win was the last major race win for Maserati. Good observation!

Are we sure?

As mentioned in another thread, Wilkins had it as a 1498cc five bearing 116E block with three bearing 1477cc unit as a spare at the Nurburgring at least.....?

Seems we are pretty sure after all!!! Harry Mundy writing for Autocar on June 1, 1962 nominated a 997cc Anglia base as intended for Le Mans......

When was the race held. Early September was usually the date of the 500 km small capacity race at the Nürburgring, while the May date was the full 1000 km distance and World Championship points. Had a look at Martin Krejci's sites, but, to my surprise, found no record of the event.

I was a little surprised that the list of winners stopped at 2000, only to discover that the thread was started 10 years ago! These days the race has been resurrected and In my oppinion it's based on the historical significance of the race. For 2011 it will be part of the ACO Le Mans World series, and rightfully so. As of the 1984-new circuit, I do miss the opening Castrol-S right-left combination.

Jesper

This must be it, I think.

http://wsrp.ic.cz/gerscc1955.html#3

Very likely, Tim, and thank you very much. The date for the 1955 race suggest that it shouldn't be mentioned among the 1000 km races, though.

Jesper

Of course, this does depend upon the definition of a "major race". As far as a race counting for the World Sports Car championship, or whatever it may have been called at the time, the Gregory/Casner win absolutely is the last major win.

I would imagine that there were some Maserati MC-12 wins in GT over the past several years, but of course that is not "world championship".

As far as sports racers are concerned, Lucky Casner won a race at Rouen a few weeks after his Nurburgring win. Then there was the win in the Road America 500 in Sept. 1961 by a Briggs Cunningham Maserati T-63 driven by Walt Hansgen and Augie Pabst. That may well be, depending upon definition, the biggest win since the 'Ring.

But it is all in your perspective, of course.

Tom

Those modern day Ferrari-based MC-12 wins don't count ..but you made your point!

Jesper

On the same page can be found the same year's Eifelrennen - a shorter race, but for bigger cars

Was it not more like the Lotus overcame the Lotus?