Testing at Goodwood (between the "racing" years) Options

[MCS]

I wasn't fortunate enough - or probably not old enough in fairness - to see any of the racing at Goodwood before it closed in the sixties.

However I was always aware (and, indeed, even able to witness ocassionally) the various testing sessions that took place there during the "closed" period.

Several questions:

Does anybody know of any decent record of the testing that did take place at Goodwood?

i.e. has anybody got any records (?), did anybody keep a list (?), was there a signing-on, registration or booking the circuit register kept in any way shape or form?

I can't believe that McLaren, Lotus et al just pitched up and took to the circuit.

Pardon my - perhaps shocking - ignorance, but surely there exists a record of who tested there and when?

Any pointers chaps

MCS

[Andrew Kitson]

I'm sure Doug may be able to help with this?
Looking at the excellent Goodwood book 'The Glory of Goodwood'
there is a chapter entitled 'Testing times'. From scanning this quickly
it would appear that F1,F2 & F3 cars tested regularly up until around
1985 due to noise restrictions. However the Onyx F1 team with Johansson
at the wheel ran their car for one flying lap at a sprint in 1989, against the
regulations and SJ set a time of 62.5 secs on this one flying lap! The transporter
made a hasty exit afterwards.
Denny Hulme set a 61 sec 144mph lap in the Can-Am McLaren in '71, which is
considered to be the unofficial record.

[2F-001]

The Onyx 'performance' was actually at a car club trackday (rather than a competitive sprint) hence it was easy to interrupt proceedings to accommodate the unheralded arrival of this F1 team looking to do a crafty (and as Andrew says, "illegal") shakedown away from public gaze - on their way to the ferry, I think. They made a donation to the club's adopted charity in return for a few moments of clear track time.

Ralt tested the RH6 F2 car there as well (such proceedings did get reported in Autosport's "Pit and Paddock" pages) - from memory, Jonathan Palmer was credited with something in the 66 sec area... but it's not too meaningful unless you know the purpose or objectives of any particular test.

[MCS]

Mmmmm...interesting stuff.

I guess the next logical question is:

What memories do TNFers have of testing at the circuit?

e.g. did anybody see the CanAm McLarens?

Thanks!

MCS

[bill moffat]

Goodwood circa 1983 and a young Moffat continues the education that would culminate in the inevitable conclusion that to be a proper racing driver you needed time, money and (above all) talent. Oh well.

The car was a much modified RS2000 X-pack which was sort of road legal. It enjoyed Goodwood but was less at home as a means of every-day transport in South London...

[MCS]

Originally posted by bill moffat

...image removed...

Goodwood circa 1983 and a young Moffat continues the education that would culminate in the inevitable conclusion that to be a proper racing driver you needed time, money and (above all) talent. Oh well.

The car was a much modified RS2000 X-pack which was sort of road legal. It enjoyed Goodwood but was less at home as a means of every-day transport in South London... [/B]

Great stuff Bill. And that wonderful building in the background too - the home at one point to a Formula Ford manufacturer I think - was it Image?

So what was it that day - not a sprint I assume as there's a car following you...?

MCS

[bill moffat]

It was a London Car Club Sprint. We used to get lined up 4-abreast and sent off at (I think) 10 second intervals.

From memory this photo was taken shortly after I had negated the big Healey's 10 second advantage and I was about to cross the line in an extravagant opposite lock slide to post f.t.d. The excitement of the large crowd is obvious to see.

My wife and sons tell me that my memory is not always perfect....

[Twin Window]

Bertrand Fabi died at Goodwood after he crashed while testing an West Surrey Ralt F3 in early '86, IIRC. It was pre-season, and I think he hit some ice or frost. Dickie couldn't face a season of F3 after that, so he ran Gugelmin in F3000 instead.

Twinny

[MCS]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Bertrand Fabi died at Goodwood after he crashed while testing an West Surrey Ralt F3 in early '86, IIRC. It was pre-season, and I think he hit some ice or frost. Dickie couldn't face a season of F3 after that, so he ran Gugelmin in F3000 instead.

Twinny

Yes, I remember that. Dick Bennetts used to lunch at a pub in Shepperton Square down the road from his premises - in Ashford I think - and he was clearly very distressed by what happened.

MCS

[Cirrus]

Some random memories of mine re Godwood testing

Reutemann and Pace testing the BT44s

Renzo Zorzi having his first, faltering outing in an F1 Williams - looking like an accident about to happen (on the Lavant Straight!) as we were trying to retrieve Patrick Neve's F2 Safir.

Derek Bell testing Lorina Boughton's F4 GRD

Gunnar Nilsson offering me the keys to his road car so I could do a few laps of the circuit

The two guys in the wheezing Land Rover that comprised the Safety Facilities. On one occaision I remember walking by the sorry vehicle (whilst testing was in full swing) to see one of them fast asleep in the passenger seat, and the other one barely awake, with his feet up on the dashboard. As I walked by, the semi-conscious one said "Don't be fooled by appearances son - I'm a coiled spring !"

[MCS]

Originally posted by Cirrus
Some random memories of mine re Godwood testing

Reutemann and Pace testing the BT44s

Renzo Zorzi having his first, faltering outing in an F1 Williams - looking like an accident about to happen (on the Lavant Straight!) as we were trying to retrieve Patrick Neve's F2 Safir.

Derek Bell testing Lorina Boughton's F4 GRD

Gunnar Nilsson offering me the keys to his road car so I could do a few laps of the circuit

The two guys in the wheezing Land Rover that comprised the Safety Facilities. On one occaision I remember walking by the sorry vehicle (whilst testing was in full swing) to see one of them fast asleep in the passenger seat, and the other one barely awake, with his feet up on the dashboard. As I walked by, the semi-conscious one said "Don't be fooled by appearances son - I'm a coiled spring !"

"Reutemann and Pace testings the BT44s"

Sounds quite a spectacle, I'm assuming a car each?

MCS

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by MCS

Yes, I remember that. Dick Bennetts used to lunch at a pub in Shepperton Square down the road from his premises...

There was also another pub, in Shepperton itself IIRC, which was a regular haunt of the WRS guys. I lived in the area for a while (at one point I shared flat with Dickie's then girlfriend Sue) and the same pub was the local for the Brabham lads too. Some great 'sessions' were to be had there, especially on non-racing Sunday lunchtimes!

What great days, when you could socialise with almost an entire GP team in a small-ish local pub...

Originally posted by Cirrus

Renzo Zorzi having his first, faltering outing in an F1 Williams...

Williams often used Goodwood back in those days, didn't they. Maybe because it was cheap...

Like Zorzi, Tony Brise had his maiden run in an F1 Willliams at Goodwood prior to his GP debut in Barcelona '75 (note the trademark GW silencers) as seen in Autosport.



Twinny

[MCS]

Quote: "There was also another pub, in Shepperton itself IIRC, which was a regular haunt of the WRS guys."

Twinny

It wasn't the pub down the residential street that ran parallel with the station was it?

If it was you'd probably know because the street and (I think) the pub were used in the Dad's Army film and the pub was full of still photographs of the film.

Nice picture of Brise - always remember his cocked head position. When he raced the Modus M3 in 74 they welded an extesnion onto his rollover hoop!

MCS

[Gary C]

'It wasn't the pub down the residential street that ran parallel with the station was it?'
The Bell ?? If so, it's my local !!

[Twin Window]

Hi Mark and Gary

Sorry not to have responded - I've just spent ages compiling a reply to an old thread I found on racing liveries (aswell as 'doing' the 8W thread!) and I've just managed to dump the entire bleedin' lot...

To be honest, I can't remember the name of the pub, so I've emailed a mate of mine who frequented the place with me at the same time. As he stayed living around the area for a fair bit longer than me, I'm hoping his recall will be better!

Still in the same vein and area, do you chaps know the Magpie in Sunbury? It was another local 'racing' pub, and the early-mid '80s landlord's name was, I'm pretty sure, Brian. He was a familiar face at Monaco, for example, and I remember being at Martin Brundle's send-off 'do' held ther prior to him flying off for his GP debut in Rio '84. Maybe you were there? Amongst those present was Murray W, and it was there IIRC that he inexplicably started to call me Steve! And that lasted for several years... Anyway, the aforementioned friend I've emailed and I shared a place just down the road from there for a while, hence my hope that he'll remember the name of t'other place!

Twinny

[MCS]

Originally posted by Gary C
'It wasn't the pub down the residential street that ran parallel with the station was it?'
The Bell ?? If so, it's my local !!

Really Gary! (small world)

I lived in Shepperton and then, briefly, in Staines in the mid-eighties.

Yes, Twinny, I remember The Magpie and there was another pub on the river just along the road from Shepperton Square that was used by racing people. Again the name escapes me - Gary, you probably know the one I mean.

MCS

[ian senior]

Early 1973. March or February. Dave Morgan with his F2 Chevron, James Hunt with the Hesketh F2 Surtees (for some reason these two didn't appear on the track at the same time...). David Purley with his March 722 sporting Falconer bodywork, and a couple of F5000 Lolas. It was a gloomy and soggy day and no-one actually spent much time on the track. There didn't seem to be much urgency on anyone's part. I do remember Morgan had pie and chips for lunch in the cafe. Guess this was just yer typical average Goodwood test session.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by MCS
[B]Quote: "There was also another pub, in Shepperton itself IIRC, which was a regular haunt of the WRS guys."
It wasn't the pub down the residential street that ran parallel with the station was it?
[/B]

Like me, my friend can't remember the name of the pub either - into which you can read what you will...!

He does, however, remember that it was in Shepperton Square.

Ian - don't know about you, but I wouldn't mind travelling back in time to re-live another of those cold, dank days when only the odd car ventured out onto the track and every now & again thawing/drying out in the Greasy Spoon! Great times...

Twinny

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Like me, my friend can't remember the name of the pub either - into which you can read what you will...!

He does, however, remember that it was in Shepperton Square.

Ian - don't know about you, but I wouldn't mind travelling back in time to re-live another of those cold, dank days when only the odd car ventured out onto the track and every now & again thawing/drying out in the Greasy Spoon! Great times...

Twinny

There's something wonderful, which it would take someone better qualified than me to describe, about days like that. They would have no appeal at all to anyone with no, or even only a passing, interest, in motor sport. It's just being there that counts. Just racing cars, drivers and a circuit. No glitz, no spectators, no commentary and no male bovine excrement. Not even any racing, just cars been driven quickly. It's simply a few moments shared only by those present. Sod the discomfort at the weather. All worth putting up with.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by ian senior

There's something wonderful, which it would take someone better qualified than me to describe, about days like that.

Nonsense, Ian! I defy anyone to describe the experience better than you have. Absolutely spot on...

Twinny

[MCS]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Like me, my friend can't remember the name of the pub either - into which you can read what you will...!

He does, however, remember that it was in Shepperton Square.

Ian - don't know about you, but I wouldn't mind travelling back in time to re-live another of those cold, dank days when only the odd car ventured out onto the track and every now & again thawing/drying out in the Greasy Spoon! Great times...

Twinny

...He does, however, remember that it was in Shepperton Square...

In which case I do believe the pub is/was "The Anchor"

MCS

[SEdward]

I remember visiting Goodwood in the early 1970s with my Dad on a trip from Portsmouth (he was a navy man) back to Gravesend. At the time, the circuit was totally absent from the UK racing scene, and indeed my Dad wondered why he even had to make the detour.

I can't remember exactly what time of year it was, but the place struck me as being flat, bleak and sad, which certainly contrasts sharply with what some of you experienced last weekend.

We looked for the places where Stirling and Bruce crashed, and then we went home.

Edward.

[Mallory Dan]

I recall a 'speed day' of some sort that was on the only time I was ever anywhere near Goodwood, quite by chance. Think it was summer 76, 'cos Purley's Group 8 Chevron B30 was there, also Derek Bell in the 75 Le Mans winning Gulf GR8. Can't remember much else about it, anyone else ??

[Cirrus]

In many ways, the decayed '70s/'80s version of Goodwood was much more atmospheric than the current pristine incarnation. The ghosts of the past seemed much more real, somehow.

I always stop to walk round the circuit if I'm in the area, and although I've been cold there, for some reason, its a place I always associate with sunshine.

[MCS]

Originally posted by Cirrus
In many ways, the decayed '70s/'80s version of Goodwood was much more atmospheric than the current pristine incarnation. The ghosts of the past seemed much more real, somehow.

I always stop to walk round the circuit if I'm in the area, and although I've been cold there, for some reason, its a place I always associate with sunshine.

Marvellously well said Alan.

I too used to often go there on my way to the south coast - invariably a detour I might add - and found it quite wonderful in its silence, tranquility and atmosphere.

(Methinks I might just start another thread about somewhere else I regularly visit for just those "atmospheric" reasons you mention...)

Thanks for sharing yur thoughts.

MCS

[SimonP]

Slightly off thread but may be of interest to some people.

You can go to a track day at Goodwood and have a go in your choice of classic, single seater or super cars. The company is called Mithril Racing and my wife gave me a Christmas present in the form of a voucher that could be used at many different racing circuits around the UK. Goodwood was on the list and I grabbed the chance to have my racing experience at such a historic place.

Mithril Racing have a web site and I think the prices vary from about £150.

It may be that someone has said all this before - if so apologies.

I had an excellent day - took a few days for the silly grin to go.

[Macca]

I too used to visit regularly from 1978, and when the planning permission for the Revival was granted I made one last 'atmospheric' trip on a quiet day and walked the track, taking pictures. I have lots of memories (and pictures from the period 1984-1997) including falling off a Kawasaki 500 at Lavant!


Paul M

[Macca]

I've been thinking back to my visits to the 'decayed' version over the years; I was already going off F1 a bit and into bikes, so the first few memories tended to be of them.

There used to be a couple of travelling bike racing schools run by ex-racers, Graham Heath and Chas Mortimer (ex-GP/TT winner who rides in the Revival bike races) and I went to sessions with both of them in 1979-80. I remember there was a then-current 500cc GP racer named Stu Avant from NZ who helped out as an instructor with Chas to raise extra cash, and occasionally rode his Suzuki RG500 GP bike at the track - must have been before the noise regs.

I saw Ron Tauranac and Ray Mallock shaking-down the prototype Ralt RT2 in '78-'79; a couple of sidecar racers named Derek Jones and Brian Ayres testing their GP outfit in '82-'83; loads of FF and FF2000 people testing over the years; but never saw a F1 or endurance/Gp C team there - they'd have been there midweek.

Didn't see many F3 cars there at weekends, but you could hear a F3 on full noise from the top of the Trundle (the hill by the horserace course) so it's not surprising they brought in noise regs.

Best memories are of club sprints and owners' club days in the '90s, and also of a regular private test/corporate day for a big company at which Moss and Brooks could be seen taking the company's customers round in 250SWBs and similar; there were usually other interesting cars there too, often ones due to run at the Festival. One year Chris Rea turned up with his replica 'Sharknose' Ferrari and 330-based 250/TRI/61 replica for their first public appearance prior to making 'La Passione'.

When I first started going there, some of the old paddock stalls were still in existence (though not for long), and the last of the pit stalls at the chicane end. There was a ramp in the area of the current Revival parc-ferme, which I presume was used either by scrutineers or for unloading; this vanished during the rebuilding, which was a pity as it was a historic relic - does anyone have a picture of it in use in the circuit's glory days?


Paul M

[Mike Lawrence]

I live in Chichester and, in my days as a teacher, I could see a lot of testing.

Among memories: Jody Scheckter in a Tyrrell 007; James Hunt in a Hesketh 308C; the first runs of the March 811 and Toleman TG181; the last test by Team Surtees; loads more.

1981 was the last you when F1 team regularly ran at Goodwood, though I did see Derek Warwick do a systems test for Toleman in 1982.

As teams got more sposorship they negan to rest abroad where the weather was more predictable, there was the advent of turbocharged cars and, besides, the circuit was getting a little too hairy. I saw the Ralt-Honda RH6 have its first run (with Mansell), but eventually Ralt-Honda had to abandon the circuit because of the noise from its engines - it was not the exhaust note (cars had to run with silencers after a Surtee test in 1973 which distrubed a local school), the trouble with the Honda engine was the noise from its valve gear.

What else? Most F3 and F3 teams, until 1982/3 and oddments such as the Aston Martin Nimrod.

Incidentally, I was the author of the main text of 'The Glory of Goodwood', Simon Taylor did the sidebar anecdotes, and I think Doug Nye did the captions.

[MCS]

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
...the last test by Team Surtees...

Thanks Mike. If it's no trouble, what was the last Surtees test like? What car, which driver, etc...?

Thanks again.

Mark

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
...Incidentally, I was the author of the main text of 'The Glory of Goodwood', Simon Taylor did the sidebar anecdotes, and I think Doug Nye did the captions.

...and a few odds and -----....

[Mike Lawrence]

The last Surtees test was in September 1978 and the driver was 'Beppe' Gabbian who was lapping quite slowly, a best time of 1m 7.9s if memory serves me right. John himself was on the stopwatch and though he didn't know me from Adam (I am better dressed and also have a navel) he could not have been more friendly. I have always found him so, but then I have never worked for him.

John had recently been in hospital to rectify lingering problems from his 1965 Can-Am crash and he told me that he was visited by Rene Arnoux who knew that Team Surtees was in trouble and said that if it helped, he would drive for nothing.

That is typical of Arnoux. I know that he appeared at the Goodwood Festival of Speed one year and still had not claimed his expenses for appearing the previous year. This contrasts with one driver I know who lives within 40 miles of Goodwood but has always claimed a first-class return fare from his other home, in his country of origin, which is a very long way from England.

Together with Rob Widdows, I was responsible for a weekly hour-long motor racing programme on a local radio station, Radio Victory. We had everyone on 'Track Torque' and I so mean everyone ,except for Fangio and Ferrari, neither of whom speak English. This is a bit of a problem on radio.

When I say everyone I mean: Williams, Dennis, Chapman, Lauda, Fittipaldi, Moss, Tyrrell, Oliver, Brooks, Ireland, Ecclestone, Mosley, Balestre, Hesketh, Cooper, Purley, Earle, Hobbs, Head, Barnard, Mansell, Piquet, Prost, Foyt, Penske, Palmer... We had Doug Nye, Jenks and a host of other writers. We had karters, novice local hopefuls and banger racers. Our local F1 contributor was John Watson, our sports car man was Derek Bell, and we followed young Warwick from F3 to F1.

Once we were stuck for a guest so I knocked on the door of Derek Daly's hotel room (he had been testing an F2 Chevron at Goodwood) and asked whether he would prefer to sit watch TV or star on radio.

The only time we were given a flat refusal was not by an F1 driver or team owner, but by the editor of 'Karting' magazine who came across as far too important to bother. We promoted karting (ex-karter myself) but this lman was far too important.

We did it all with no budget, not even expenses, we just had an hour of air time. Nobody was paid anything apart from a pint in the pub next door.

After four years, it came to an end. Rob went to television and I did other things for Radio Victory. We had broadcast about 200 hours of motor raing.

Rob and I sat in a pub and mused over we had managed to do. Rob said, "Who was your favourite?" He expected me to say Moss, for Stirling is the Greatest Driver of All. I said, "Surtees." Rob thought the same.

John came on for two one-hour programmes (which included phone-ins from listeners.) He arrived with a reputation for being difficult, yet he was open, honest and, sometimes, very funny.

There was the time when Derek Bell had David Hobbs staying at his house. Derek said, "You have to listen to this, a couple of guys do a motor racing programme on local radio." Rob and I had waited for our guests (initials, DB and DH) and had gone into the studio with no studio guests and an hour of air-time to fill.

Nine minutes after we began, Dinger and Hobbo arrived. When Derek had said, "You must listen to this programme," Hobbo had said, "I thought that was why I was here." Oh Gawd! I do not want to even consider how many laws were broken, and I still have a problem with contemplating the average speeds involved as two cars covered 25 miles. in not much more than 15 minutes.

A colleague at my school was once surprised that I did the programme for nothing. He was a keen motorcyclist. so he understood when I said, "Last night, I spent an hour with Hohn Surtees in a pub bedore the show, then I spent an hour in the studio with Surtees, and an hour in the pub afterwards. Last night, I spent three hours with John Surtees and received no money for it. You spent three hours in front to the telly, and were not paid for watching the pap. Which of us had the better evening?"

No answer, to that, is there?

[MCS]

John Surtees was the first racing driver I asked for an autograph.

He smiled, took my autograph book and pen and signed my book's page, taking care not to write over the small photograph of him that I had glued in the corner of the page.

He then smiled again and asked me if his signature was okay!

Wow! My Dad had warned me that he could be an abrasive so and so. No way.

I was very upset when his F1 team folded, hence my question to Mike...

(Thanks Mike).

Mark